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Post Info TOPIC: I Am SICK Of Titan Hose Reels


RCIA Founder

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
I Am SICK Of Titan Hose Reels
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I am at my freaking wits END with Titan Hose Reels, and can not suggest them any longer for Chlorine use. They have an inherent problem in their stainless steel manifolds they have known about for many years (because i told them). Here is the deal, they fail within 6 months because the WELD material is not stainless steel! It is a cheap MIG Weld, and it cannot resist the chlorine, even if you rinse it well. I am SICK of freaking breaking down because of these POS Hose reels. Today, w/o any warning, we are 45 miles from home, trying to do a Church roof with a lift, and guess what ? The freaking Titan Hose reel deceded to leak all over, w/o any warning. I am paying 300 dollars a DAY for the man lift, and we had to drive all the way back to tampa, to switch hose reels insides from our other truck. The Titan Manifolds are a bitch to change, because you need a puller to do it with.
Folks, if Titan is going to continue to make their reels this way, let's not use them. They have had years to FIX this problem, and have not done so. Let's explore some other hose reels for roof cleaning use. Titans SUCK

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chris i couldnt agree more with you i am on my seconf reel in less than two years

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Bummer,  since I just bought one of them 3 months ago......   Argh.


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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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Hmmm, I've had my 18in titan for 2 yrs now and no problems except for replacing the swivel. I use a mosmatic swivel which has been on for just about a year now and its fine. I do however rinse 5-10 gals of fresh water though my system at the end of evey day. I do believe this has helped to prolong the live of all the fittings.

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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I think mine is on the way out. I hope I can make it another two months. Does anyone rebuild these Titan reels?

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Roof Washer New Jersey (609) 929-5812 wrote:

chris i couldnt agree more with you i am on my seconf reel in less than two years




I have spent MORE money on Titan Hose Reels then my roof cleaning pumps. I have 2 sitting alongside my house, broken! This is bull Chit, Titan can, and MUST do better if they wish to continue to see roof cleaning hose reels. The WELD is THE Problem, where the hose attaches to the manifold, the chlorine attacks it! I will pay MORE for hose reel that does not let me down, with no warning. Titan has KNOWN about this issue for years. It is almost like they WANT their POS Reels to fail, to sell us more manifolds ? I will coil my freaking hose before I ever buy another Titan. Start BITCHING to your distributors, and stop buying these POS reels, maybe then Titan will LISTEN to us, and fix the god darn problem.



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Roof Cleaning Palm Harbor FL 727 543 3276 wrote:

Hmmm, I've had my 18in titan for 2 yrs now and no problems except for replacing the swivel. I use a mosmatic swivel which has been on for just about a year now and its fine. I do however rinse 5-10 gals of fresh water though my system at the end of evey day. I do believe this has helped to prolong the live of all the fittings.



We rinse them out at the end of every job, not just the end of the day. Our F 450 has a really cool new rinse system that makes it easy to do. They need to go to an all PVC Inner Core, or simply weld the stainless with stainless, not copper MIG Wire ?

 



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The problem is in the weld! If welding temps are too high, it destroys the corrosion resistance of the stainless steel! Titan may want to read this ?

Joining Stainless Steel by Soldering, Brazing
and Resistance Welding
L. D. Connell
Johnson Matthey Metals Limited, London
Reprinted from
Stainless Steel Industry
January 1975
JOHNSON MATTHEY METALS LIMITED
2
Stainless steel is a general term covering a group of materials which have different corrosion and heat resistant properties dependent upon their composition and heat treatment. Most users appreciate this difference but there are still instances where drawings will merely state ‘stainless steel’. All stainless steels can be classified into groups and this article relates specifically to those which are collectively known as martensitic and austenitic steels.
Martensitic Stainless Steels
These steels are heat treated and consequently the effects of temperature can influence the mechanical and corrosion resistant properties. It is sometimes necessary to localize the heat affected zone or heat treat the assembly after joining. Martensitic steels are magnetic.
Applications The stainless irons can be fabricated and present few problems in welding although they can give difficulties in brazing. Common applications are turbine blades and household cutlery.
High chromium stainless steels are more affected by temperature and consequently care must be taken to ensure that the correct heat treatment is employed, either before or after joining. Common applications are valve holders and seatings, and surgical instruments where sharp edges are required.
The third group of materials have better corrosive resistant properties coupled with good mechanical properties. They are used for the more specialized components in the turbine, chemical and aircraft applications.
Austenitic Stainless Steels
The austenitic steels are based on the 18% chromium 8% nickel composition although the chromium addition can vary from 15—22% and the nickel from 6—11%. These steels cannot be hardened by heat treatment and must rely for their mechanical properties on mechanical working. This means that any thermal joining treatment will reduce the mechanical properties in the heat affected zone.
The austenitic steels if heated between 5500C and 7500C will precipitate a complex chromium carbide. This will render the material susceptible to corrosion at a rapid rate. The degree of this precipitation will be a function of the carbon content but it is obvious that most thermal joining processes will be a potential hazard. The steels can be stabilized by the addition of either niobium or titanium and all austenitic steels that are to be brazed or welded should either be in this condition or have a low carbon content. Most austenitic stainless steels have low proof stress values and are therefore not used for structural applications unless heavily cold worked. The main applications are in domestic fittings, hotel and general catering utensils and pressed or sheet metal assemblies.
Joining Processes
Soldering Stainless steel can be soldered using the conventional lead—tin solders but the bond strength is often poor as is the colour match. Better results are often obtained by using the silver-bearing soft solders. The silver—tin alloys with approximately 5% silver are particularly useful especially with the stainless steel holloware.
When soft soldering stainless steel it must be remembered that the surface will be protected by a thin oxide film which will have to be removed before satisfactory results can be achieved. The use of resin-based, non-corrosive fluxes will not be satisfactory and an acid-based flux will have to be used especially on the higher melting point silver-bearing alloys. In this case care must be taken to wash off the flux residues. As with most soft solder joints the bond strength of these alloys on stainless steel is low. It is therefore important to design the joint to give the maximum strength on the assembly.
This type of soldering is employed for application where high temperatures, such as would be required for brazing, can cause distortion or where a joint is held mechanically and a seal is required. A typical example is the joining of spouts and bases onto kettle bodies.
The alloys used are as follows:
Melting
range 0C
JMM Plumbsol
JMM P5
JMM LM10A
25% Ag-Sn
5% Ag-Sn
10% Ag-Sn-Cu
221—225
221—235
214—275
Low Temperature Silver Brazing
Stainless steel is used for many applications where it is subjected to stress and it is also frequently subjected to a corrosive environment. For these applications the relatively low strength of the solders makes them unsuitable and the high strength silver brazing alloys are preferred.
Strong ductile joints can be easily made on stainless steel but care must be taken in the choice of brazing alloy and grade of stainless steel to ensure that the joint will be satisfactory in service. Brazing will involve heating the steel to a temperature where carbide precipitation would take place. It is therefore essential that the steel must be stabilized or a low carbon content steel is used.
Particular care must be taken in the selection of brazing alloys for stainless steel when the resultant joints are to be exposed to water or humidity in service. In these conditions failure of the joint can result from corrosion, often referred to as ‘crevice corrosion’, at the brazing alloy stainless steel interface. The mechanism of this failure is complex but the basic mechanism is that a galvanic cell will be set up between the brazing alloy and stainless steel which causes the interface to be removed. Joints that have failed from crevice corrosion usually appear bright and unpitted as though the joint had not been brazed correctly. Failure due to crevice corrosion is rare in joints made in austenitic stainless steel but is more common in the low nickel or nickel-free chromium steels of the ferritic or martensitic type.
Special brazing alloys have been developed to overcome this problem. The most suitable silver brazing alloy for service with any stainless steel where crevice corrosion is a problem is a silver—copper-indium—nickel alloy known as JMM Argo-braze 56. Other alloys which are less resistant to crevice corrosion are also available.
Joining Stainless Steel by Soldering, Brazing and Resistance Welding
by L. D. Connell (Johnson Matthey Metals Ltd)
Table 1 Brazing Alloys for Stainless Steels
Name
Composition
BS ref
1845
Resistance to crevice corrosion
JMM Easy-Flo
JMM Easy-Flo No. 2
1845 AG4
JMM Easy-Flo No. 3
JMM Argo-braze 56
50% Ag-Cu-Cd-Zn
42% Ag-Cu-Cd-Zn
61% Ag-Cu-Zn
50% Ag-Cu-Cd-Zn-Ni
56% Ag-Cu-In-Ni
AG1
AG2
AG4


No
No
No
In some cases Yes
3
The use of a flux is essential when brazing stainless steel in air. With components where the joint area can be easily heated up to brazing temperature, the JMM Easy-Flo flux stainless steel grade can be used. However, should prolonged heating be necessary, a flux metal reaction will take place when this flux is used. This reaction will form a film on the surface of the stainless steel so that it cannot be wetted by the brazing alloy and the addition of fresh flux will not remove this film. In these instances it is necessary to use a flux known as JMM Tenacity Flux No 5. This has improved high temperature properties and does not react with stainless steel. The only problem is that the residues are not water soluble and have to be removed with caustic soda.
Another aspect associated with the brazing of stainless steel is that of stress cracking. Alloys such as stainless steel have high stress relieving temperatures. This means that stresses can be present in the material when the brazing alloy is molten which can result in the brazing alloy penetrating the grain boundaries to cause cracking. This problem can be overcome by annealing the components before brazing or by slow even heating. Uneven heating can in itself induce stress in the steel and cause cracking on annealed material.
Noble Metal Brazing Alloys Where stainless steel is used in highly corrosive environments or at elevated temperatures likely to cause oxidation, then the choice of brazing alloy and technique is important.
The selection of alloy will depend upon the degree of resistance required. The 5% Pd—Ag—Cu alloy, JMM Pallabraze 810, is the lowest palladium content alloy. These alloys have oxidation resistance up to 500ºC and their corrosion resistance is a function of the palladium content.
Where maximum oxidation resistance coupled with high strength at elevated temperatures is required, the gold—nickel series of alloys should be used. These alloys have excellent flow properties and resultant joints are neat and smooth. The Pallabraze alloys are resistant to crevice corrosion whilst the gold—nickel alloys give maximum protection from crevice corrosion and chemical attack. These alloys are therefore particularly suitable for stainless steel chemical plant.
Whilst joints with the noble metal alloys can be made using a flux and torch heating, most applications require a furnace and vacuum brazing is often employed. It should be noted that where a reducing atmosphere is used then the dew point of the furnace gas must be controlled to at least —40ºC.
Where furnace brazing is the preferred technique and crevice corrosion is a problem with less emphasis on oxidation and corrosion resistance, the maximum economy can be achieved by the use of copper-base alloys. These include a Cu—Ni—B alloy known as JMM ‘B’ Bronze. This alloy can be used with a flux but is designed for furnace brazing under a reducing atmosphere. Although it is free-flowing and capable of producing neat smooth joints it can also be used for filling gaps—an advantage which in some cases can eliminate costly close tolerance machining.
Resistance Welding
Brazing produces neat leak-proof joints but for some applications appearance is not important and localized heat affected areas are preferred. In these cases resistance welding may be specified.
Spot and Seam Welding Stainless steel can be satisfactorily spot welded provided that the correct procedure is used. It is important to recognize that stainless steel has a high strength at elevated temperatures. This means that a high forging temperature is necessary to ensure that sound welds are produced. Electrode Forces for stainless steel should be approximately 50% greater than those used for mild steel. The effect of this high electrode force will be deformation of the electrode and consequently the necessity for frequent redressing of the electrode. Due to the fact that stainless steel has high electrical resistance it is possible to employ electrodes with a higher resistance than the chromium copper types used on mild steel. The preferred electrode material for stainless steel is a copper—cobalt—beryllium material known as Mallory 100. This alloy has a tensile strength of 69 h bar and an electrical conductivity of 45% IACS. It is also the preferred alloy for seam welding wheels.
Projection Welding Projection welding of stainless steel, although a practical proposition, is not widely used. The strength of the projection and the high pressure involved usually mean that electrodes inserted with copper tungsten Elkonite 20W3 have to be used. Where projection welding is in the form of cross wire welding the Mallory 100 alloy is usually satisfactory.
Typical resistance welding settings for use on stainless steel are given in Tables 2 and 3.
Table 2 Typical Settings for Spot Welding Stainless Steel
Sheet thicknesses
Electrode tip
diameter
Electrode
force
Weld
time
Weld
current
in.
mm*
in.
mm*
lb
kg
cycles
amps
0.022
0.56
24
5/32
4.00
400
180
4
4,000
0.028
0.71
22
3/16
4.75
650
295
5
6,000
0.036
0.92
20
3/16
4.80
750
340
6
7,000
0.048
1.22
18
7/32
5.50
1200
545
8
9,500
0.064
1.63
16
1/4
6.35
1500
680
10
11,000
0.080
2.03
14
5/16
7.95
1900
860
14
14,000
0.104
2.64
12
5/16
7.95
2400
1090
16
16,000
*Approximate metric conversion.
Table 3 Typical Settings for Seam Welding Stainless Steel
Sheet thicknesses
Tread width
Electrode
force
Machine setting
cycles
in.
mm*
swg
in.
mm*
lb
kg
on
off
0.012
0.31
30
1/8
3.175
900
405
1
2
0.022
0.56
24
5/32
4.00
1100
495
2
2
0.036
0.92
20
3/16
4.75
1300
590
2
3
0.048
1.22
18
7/32
5.55
1500
680
3
3
0.064
1.63
16
1/4
6.35
1800
815
3
4
0.080
2.03
14
9/32
7.15
2000
905
4
4
0.104
2.64
12
5/16
7.95
2200
995
5
5
0.128
3.25
10
11/32
8.75
2400
1090
5
5
P Approximate metric conversion.
Printed by Adlard & Son Ltd., Bartholomew Press, Dorking

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Guest

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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i have gone throught a manifold and two swivels and the cost of the replacements are ridiculous. My new reel,not even 3 months old now with only about 23 roofs on it, the swivel went and thank god i bought a new one earlier.

Maybe the reels that the pesticide guys use would hold up a little better i will do some research.

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Williamstown NJ 08094

Mike Derose-Owner

609-929-5812



RCIA Founder

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Roof Washer New Jersey (609) 929-5812 wrote:

i have gone throught a manifold and two swivels and the cost of the replacements are ridiculous. My new reel,not even 3 months old now with only about 23 roofs on it, the swivel went and thank god i bought a new one earlier.

Maybe the reels that the pesticide guys use would hold up a little better i will do some research.



Yes, lets everyone LOOK for other reels we can use. 

 



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Guest

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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I went with bargain basement Cox Reels, since I figure they'd wind up in the scrap heap anyway.

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Certified Cedar Shake Roof Cleaning Specialist

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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Thanks for the heads up Chris. Was about to drop cash for one. I'll wait for more feedback on alternatives.

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Guest

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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Mine just went and ordered another on Tuesday. I might be able to return it if someone finds another quality reel quickly. LOL

-- Edited by WDE on Thursday 30th of September 2010 05:28:20 PM

-- Edited by WDE on Thursday 30th of September 2010 05:31:00 PM

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Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute Of America Certified Roof Cleaning Specialist

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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 All my stuff is the less expensive stuff. I've swapped out many quick connects, on the reel. I double rinse, my chit, right after the job. meaning 100 foot of my line spits at about a gallon and half. I run 3 gallon of water through the pump and chem line.

 I'm keeping a close eye on everything on the reel. Brass elbows etc. Gone through 3 or 4 nozzles. From lowes all plastic, less than 3 bucks. have 2 backups on side tool box, lol!! I think it gives more control of the spray than a ball valve, the ball valve could give more distance in therory? My Delavan is doing great. When I washn wood I use the same setup for wood. The chem line. So I'm running acid, sodium hypochlorite, sodium hydroxide, percarbonate, all kinda chit though it!

 I dont do anywhere near the volume alot of guys do, and I know that. I'm building another trailer next year. This trailer is going to be a Lamborghini!!! I'll have me some decent hose reels on it too. Thanks to this thread.

 Be Thankfull you found the RCIA.

-- Edited by gutterdog on Thursday 30th of September 2010 06:08:49 PM

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guest

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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I've had the same issue with the Titan hose reel. I was wondering if I was the only one, clearly, I'm not!

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I got mine in early spring. All here said it was the way to go. Guess I better get parts ordered now anticipating problems to come...

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Yea! I just put two of them on my trailer..... lol

At least there not for roof mix I guess.

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Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute Of America Certified Roof Cleaning Specialist

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This will get figured out too.

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Date: Sep 30, 2010
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I work with lot's of stainless. I have seen machinery come in from china and japan that is so called " stainless " It starts to rust with in a few months of use. I would say it sounds like titan is using some cheap imported stainless.

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I placed a Call to Lori of Pressure Washer Products today at 11 am. Kelly answered, told me Lori was on the phone, and would call me right back.  She never did! I have a manlift sitting at the jobsite costing me 225 dollars a DAY. Since I bought the Titan Hose Reels through Lori, I figured out I would start there. I clearly told Kelly of PWP I was having problems, and it was important for Lori to call me back. I am getting madder by the moment

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