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RE: APPLE CIDER SAUCE

Roofguard Shingle Cleaning · Guest

Hey Mitch it's on the shelf at the Lowes in Southern Maryland you can also find TSP on line in 25lb boxes.

garyw · Oct 28, 2009

Just a Qwik question. Read on here to wait and add the alcohol and Ultra Dawn or Ajax until you are ready to spray. Was stated that the soap and alkyhol tend to kill the chlorine somewhat. Has anybody ever read the lable on Dawn or Ajax? It states to NOT mix with bleach. Why I have no idea. Anybody know? Could laundry (liquid) soap be used instead? It is made to be added to bleach. Just curious and wanting to learn.
Gary 138394,

RCIA Founder

garyw wrote:

Just a Qwik question. Read on here to wait and add the alcohol and Ultra Dawn or Ajax until you are ready to spray. Was stated that the soap and alkyhol tend to kill the chlorine somewhat. Has anybody ever read the lable on Dawn or Ajax? It states to NOT mix with bleach. Why I have no idea. Anybody know? Could laundry (liquid) soap be used instead? It is made to be added to bleach. Just curious and wanting to learn.
Gary

Because Mama is standing over a sink, and fumes caused by mixing Dawn and Bleach may be irritating to her ?
Dawn and Ajax all contain Alcohol, and mixed with Bleach, fumes occur.
Outside, this has not been a problem, at least for me.
The improved cleaning from the added Alcohol is worth it.

Many cleaning contractors use Dawn that has Alcohol in it with their Bleach on a daily basis.

Apple Cider is based on a US Patent.
The added cleaning effects of Alcohol added to bleach are well documented.

RCIA Founder

Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:

garyw wrote:

Just a Qwik question. Read on here to wait and add the alcohol and Ultra Dawn or Ajax until you are ready to spray. Was stated that the soap and alkyhol tend to kill the chlorine somewhat. Has anybody ever read the lable on Dawn or Ajax? It states to NOT mix with bleach. Why I have no idea. Anybody know? Could laundry (liquid) soap be used instead? It is made to be added to bleach. Just curious and wanting to learn.
Gary

Because Mama is standing over a sink, and fumes caused by mixing Dawn and Bleach may be irritating to her ?
Dawn and Ajax all contain Alcohol, and mixed with Bleach, fumes occur.
Outside, this has not been a problem, at least for me.
The improved cleaning from the added Alcohol is worth it.

Many cleaning contractors use Dawn that has Alcohol in it with their Bleach on a daily basis.

Apple Cider is based on a US Patent.
The added cleaning effects of Alcohol added to bleach are well documented.
According to the present invention, the surfactant can be any surfactant that is miscible with water and compatible with concentrated chlorinated bleach solutions. The phrase "compatible with concentrated chlorinated bleach solutions" means that the surfactant and chlorinated bleach solutions are soluble in each other without reacting or changing their chemical composition. The surfactant must be suitable for storage with hypochlorite solutions without loss of its cleaning ability and without reaction.
The surfactant emulsifies the oils and dirt impregnated in the wood or surface being cleaned as well as any perfume or odorant oils added to the inventive composition. Further, the surfactant emulsifies undesirable materials in and on the surface being cleaned and helps remove these undesirable materials such as oxidized oils and dirt. The surfactant also serves as a buffer to prevent raising the wood grain by the hypochlorite solution.
Preferably, the surfactant is an amine oxide, a lauryl betaine, an ethoxylated carbon chain compound and/or a sulfonated carbon chain compound.
Specific examples of such surfactants suitable for use in the present composition include a lauryl dimethyl amine oxide, a lauryl betaine, an ethoxylated hydrogenated tallow amine, a nonylphenol ethoxylated or triethanol amine salt of an alkylauryl sulfonate or an octylphenoxy polyethoxy ethanol. An amine oxide, a lauryl betaine, or an octylphenoxy polyethoxy ethanol are especially preferred.
The surfactant can be one or a combination of surfactants and the total percent by volume ranges from about 0.1 to about 10 percent. The preferred amount of surfactant is about 1 percent by volume.
According to the present invention, the alcohol can be any of a primary, secondary or tertiary alcohol, as long as it is compatible with concentrated chlorinated bleach solutions. The phrase "compatible with concentrated chlorinated bleach solutions" means that the alcohol and chlorinated bleach solutions are soluble in each other without reacting or changing their chemical composition.
Specific examples of suitable alcohols that are useful in the present composition, on a 100 percent basis, include methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol and its denatured counterparts, and isopropyl alcohol.
Isopropyl alcohol and/or methyl alcohol are preferred. Ethyl alcohol and its denatured counterparts are less desirable because of high cost and the complexity of the denaturant formulas. Higher alcohols such as butyl, octyl, and decyl alcohol are not desirable because they dry too slowly.
The alcohol aids the penetration of the surfactant and bleach (hypochlorite) into the surface and helps emulsify undesirable oils. The alcohols can be used alone or in combination.
The alcohol is used in an amount of from about 0.1 to about 8 percent by volume, and an amount of about 0.5 to 1.2 percent by volume is preferred.
According to the present invention, the chlorinated bleach solution can be any of sodium hydrochlorite, potassium hypochlorite or calcium hypochlorite. Calcium hypochlorite is less preferred because the calcium ion is relatively insoluble and causes surfactants, soaps or detergents to become inactive.
In the present composition, hypochlorite removes the stains caused by mold, mildew, fungus and algae usually associated with dampness and moisture. The chlorinating and oxidizing action of the hypochlorite solution whitens and brightens the surface cleaned and returns it to a stain and dirt free surface as when new.

garyw · Oct 28, 2009

OK< Thanks smile

After reading all that with those $5.00 words, I've got a headache!! ashamed

RCIA Founder

garyw wrote:

OK< Thanks
After reading all that with those $5.00 words, I've got a headache!!

All ya gotta know is the part about the Alcohol, read that part ??
The Alcohol aids in penetration, and allows the chlorine to penetrate the Algae better.
IOW, better cleaning, faster cleaning.

andy hinson · Oct 28, 2009

Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:

Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:

garyw wrote:

Just a Qwik question. Read on here to wait and add the alcohol and Ultra Dawn or Ajax until you are ready to spray. Was stated that the soap and alkyhol tend to kill the chlorine somewhat. Has anybody ever read the lable on Dawn or Ajax? It states to NOT mix with bleach. Why I have no idea. Anybody know? Could laundry (liquid) soap be used instead? It is made to be added to bleach. Just curious and wanting to learn.
Gary

Because Mama is standing over a sink, and fumes caused by mixing Dawn and Bleach may be irritating to her ?
Dawn and Ajax all contain Alcohol, and mixed with Bleach, fumes occur.
Outside, this has not been a problem, at least for me.
The improved cleaning from the added Alcohol is worth it.

Many cleaning contractors use Dawn that has Alcohol in it with their Bleach on a daily basis.

Apple Cider is based on a US Patent.
The added cleaning effects of Alcohol added to bleach are well documented.
According to the present invention, the surfactant can be any surfactant that is miscible with water and compatible with concentrated chlorinated bleach solutions. The phrase "compatible with concentrated chlorinated bleach solutions" means that the surfactant and chlorinated bleach solutions are soluble in each other without reacting or changing their chemical composition. The surfactant must be suitable for storage with hypochlorite solutions without loss of its cleaning ability and without reaction.
The surfactant emulsifies the oils and dirt impregnated in the wood or surface being cleaned as well as any perfume or odorant oils added to the inventive composition. Further, the surfactant emulsifies undesirable materials in and on the surface being cleaned and helps remove these undesirable materials such as oxidized oils and dirt. The surfactant also serves as a buffer to prevent raising the wood grain by the hypochlorite solution.
Preferably, the surfactant is an amine oxide, a lauryl betaine, an ethoxylated carbon chain compound and/or a sulfonated carbon chain compound.
Specific examples of such surfactants suitable for use in the present composition include a lauryl dimethyl amine oxide, a lauryl betaine, an ethoxylated hydrogenated tallow amine, a nonylphenol ethoxylated or triethanol amine salt of an alkylauryl sulfonate or an octylphenoxy polyethoxy ethanol. An amine oxide, a lauryl betaine, or an octylphenoxy polyethoxy ethanol are especially preferred.
The surfactant can be one or a combination of surfactants and the total percent by volume ranges from about 0.1 to about 10 percent. The preferred amount of surfactant is about 1 percent by volume.
According to the present invention, the alcohol can be any of a primary, secondary or tertiary alcohol, as long as it is compatible with concentrated chlorinated bleach solutions. The phrase "compatible with concentrated chlorinated bleach solutions" means that the alcohol and chlorinated bleach solutions are soluble in each other without reacting or changing their chemical composition.
Specific examples of suitable alcohols that are useful in the present composition, on a 100 percent basis, include methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol and its denatured counterparts, and isopropyl alcohol.
Isopropyl alcohol and/or methyl alcohol are preferred. Ethyl alcohol and its denatured counterparts are less desirable because of high cost and the complexity of the denaturant formulas. Higher alcohols such as butyl, octyl, and decyl alcohol are not desirable because they dry too slowly.
The alcohol aids the penetration of the surfactant and bleach (hypochlorite) into the surface and helps emulsify undesirable oils. The alcohols can be used alone or in combination.
The alcohol is used in an amount of from about 0.1 to about 8 percent by volume, and an amount of about 0.5 to 1.2 percent by volume is preferred.
According to the present invention, the chlorinated bleach solution can be any of sodium hydrochlorite, potassium hypochlorite or calcium hypochlorite. Calcium hypochlorite is less preferred because the calcium ion is relatively insoluble and causes surfactants, soaps or detergents to become inactive.
In the present composition, hypochlorite removes the stains caused by mold, mildew, fungus and algae usually associated with dampness and moisture. The chlorinating and oxidizing action of the hypochlorite solution whitens and brightens the surface cleaned and returns it to a stain and dirt free surface as when new.

Whoa!! Very Impressive.

garyw · Oct 31, 2009

Spent the last 2 days setting my new equipment up and now I'm ready. Tomorrow I'm going back and re-do the house I spent 6.5 hours at last Sunday trying to clean a 1200 sq.ft. roof with that worthless product QSE. All that time and it still looks like $hit.
I bought a "fat boy" and all my hose from Lori, along with the other smaller pump for back up. Installed a 200 gal plastic tank in back of my diesel dully with ladder rack on top the tank. Looking forward to tomorrow so I can get my dignity back after the embarrisment of last week-end. Sorta nervous, hoping this really is going to work. Got a 55gal barrel of SH, 50 pounds of TSP, gallon of alkyhol, and a big bottle of Dawn. Should be all I need. Also got 3-10' sections of corragated drain pipe to place on the downspouts to get the love away from the plants.
Hoping to take pictures to post, so wish me luck!
Gary roof cleaning 138394, emote.img?ID=8424

GO WILDCATS biggrin

RCIA Founder

garyw wrote:

Spent the last 2 days setting my new equipment up and now I'm ready. Tomorrow I'm going back and re-do the house I spent 6.5 hours at last Sunday trying to clean a 1200 sq.ft. roof with that worthless product QSE. All that time and it still looks like $hit.
I bought a "fat boy" and all my hose from Lori, along with the other smaller pump for back up. Installed a 200 gal plastic tank in back of my diesel dully with ladder rack on top the tank. Looking forward to tomorrow so I can get my dignity back after the embarrisment of last week-end. Sorta nervous, hoping this really is going to work. Got a 55gal barrel of SH, 50 pounds of TSP, gallon of alkyhol, and a big bottle of Dawn. Should be all I need. Also got 3-10' sections of corragated drain pipe to place on the downspouts to get the love away from the plants.
Hoping to take pictures to post, so wish me luck!
Gary

GO WILDCATS

Just the chlorine mixed with water alone will clean a roof.
Alcohol added makes the cleaning faster.
TSP and Dawn are surfactants that when added to the chlorine/water mix make for a nicer looking roof.
Do not go nuts on TSP, and think "more is better" ?
1/4 to 1/2 cup per gallon final mix should be all you need when using Dawn and Alcohol along with it.

H2OCleaning · Guest

does the alcohol break down the SH

Ohio Roof Cleaning · Guest

I don't think so but the Dawn will...

PowerClean · Guest

Sorry guys, guess I should have read the question better...

Any high alkaline soap will breakdown SH. Not sure about if any of the other chems would do the same to isopropyl. However, isopropyl like SH, dissipates over time.

The only other thing you have to watch out for is an acid based chlorine masker, which will neutralize the overall pH of your mix, minimizing its effectiveness.

-- Edited by PowerClean on Sunday 1st of November 2009 10:35:01 AM

H2OCleaning · Guest

if you switch to ammonyx Lo for surfactant and floramsk for you masking agent you wont have that problem neither one attacks the SH two weeks later your mix is still hot and ready to use

RCIA Founder

Good Thread so far guys!

In THEORY, the formation of the Hyperchlorite ION in the chlorine is more favorable at higher PH.
The Hypochlorus Acid in Chlorine that does the disinfecting is better at lower PH.

I had some pure Sodium Metasilicate, a real high PH cleaner.
Reasoning that if I dumped some in my mix, it should raise the PH, and clean better ?
Guess what, it sucked, it did clean, but it took longer then w/o it, and the final product after three torrential rains showed no difference at all!

So much for Theory ?

Actually Alcohol is at a low PH, if I recall correctly ?

But the small amount we use in our mix is not enough to alter the PH enough to make any PH difference.

Both TSP and Sodium Hydroxide are high PH compounds, and make a difference you can tell in cleaning power.
And, so does a little 20 Mule team Borax.

So does Dawn and Ajax.

NP 9 Surfactant really makes a difference, but it eats up the roof cleaning chemical.

The new chlorine stable surfactant that Lori at Pressure Washer Products has shows a lot of promise!

"Cleaning" is possible with just Chlorine and Water mixed alone, I want that understood ?

But better, and faster cleaning is possible by adding additional stuff to your mix.

Nothing against Dawn or Ajax guys.
It is readily availiable, easy to find.
But it is nothing more then watered down surfactant with a little Alcohol in it.

Add ENOUGH Dawn or Ajax to your mix, and it will EAT it up faster, just like NP 9 will.

That is why the new chlorine stable surfactant Lori has shows so much promise!

Just dump it in, mix it well, and go clean, no worries about it eating your left over mix up.

One has to be "careful" not to add TOO much surfactant, unless we need the extra cling for a real steep roof ?

Even excess amounts of Dawn and Ajax added will "dry to a film" on a roof, and not look it's best until it rains, or you rinse.

And be WARNED !!!

Put TOO much Dawn, Ajax, or Surfactant in your mix, and you can literally be there "forever" trying to rinse the funking roof.

BUT, once the roof is finally rinsed, hopefully by the rain, it is a "thing of beauty" to behold!

Eckerd Drug Stores here in Tampa was going out of business years ago.
I was able to buy bottles of Dawn, large ones too, for a dollar each!

I once added 30 bottles of Ajax to a 500 gallon tank, with 325 gallons of chlorine/water in it.

I cleaned a roof on Friday, and it dried to a film, much like NP 9, and I noticed a decrease in cleaning ability, as it sat in my tank over the weekend.

By Wednesday, I would have dumped the remaining stuff out, it was so weak, but I didn't want to "waste all that Ajax" LOL

So, I aDDED SOME MORE WATER/CHLORINE, sorry about the caps!

This is another "lesson" I learned.

That MOST things are un compatable with Chlorine LONG TERM.

That is why good old TSP is nice, it is totally compatable with Chlorine, but a beotch to use.

Even if you pre mix with hot water, it still finds it's way to the bottom of your tank, to get sucked up eventually into your pump.
Same with Borax!

Even excess Dawn and Ajax form "clumps" eventually that look almost like "jellyfish" floating in your tanks.

This is because they :lost the fight: with the Chlorine.

A TRULY Chlorine stable/compatable surfactant IS what we really need!

And evidently, an RCIA Member (NOT ME) has discovered one !!

He told Lori about it, and me too, in another thread.

Hey, it was Halloween last night, I have a hangover, poor memory of his name, and what it is called ?

Something like Amoxyphenol ??

Someone jump in here, and give credit to the RCIA Member who found this stuff, and it's Correct Name ??

I plan to get some from Lori soon, and try it myself ?

H2OCleaning · Guest

its called ammonyx LO and i just dumped the two week old test batch in my housewash mix yesterday it was still stong no clumping it did not attacking the SH at all even after two week
take about 5 Ibuprofen and two redbull and say goodby to that hangover repeat in about 4 hours without the redbull if its not totally gone

garyw · Nov 1, 2009

Did a search on here and on the internet for floramsk and found nothing. Is this the correct spelling? Where can you buy it? Info?

H2OCleaning · Guest

the company is called florachem the product is called floramask it is about $52 a gallon but you can mix it 1000 to 1 i use it at 500 to 1 for some extra smell just remember the mixing ratio is for the amount of SH not the total omount of mix

example
200 gallons of tile strenth mix
100 gallons of SH =12400 ounces
use 25 oz of floramask
any more and the smell will linger for a month or so

here is the # 904 733 5759 they are in jacksonville fl

-- Edited by H2OCleaning on Sunday 1st of November 2009 12:09:45 PM

RCIA Founder

H2OCleaning wrote:

its called ammonyx LO and i just dumped the two week old test batch in my housewash mix yesterday it was still stong no clumping it did not attacking the SH at all even after two week
take about 5 Ibuprofen and two redbull and say goodby to that hangover repeat in about 4 hours without the redbull if its not totally gone

LOL Billy!
I do have some Jagermeister and Red Bull, that is what the lady in my profile picture drinks.
I am a Beer type guy, but actually distilled water is good for a hangover.
Distilled water flushes you right out.

BTW, what cleaning results did you get with the Ammonyx LO ?

H2OCleaning · Guest

the results where great i put 2/3 gallon in a 200 gallon mix on a tile roof i worked great very little movement of the chem after spraying it it seems to clean faster than when i used dawn. when i used it on a shingle roof it stuck like glew it was hard to make it run you can lay the mix on very thick on a shingle roof. the roof wasnt cleaned for 20years it was black one coat was all it took i was very impressed

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