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Post Info TOPIC: The 12 Volt Roof Cleaning Pumps Of The Future ?


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Date: Oct 22, 2014
The 12 Volt Roof Cleaning Pumps Of The Future ?
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I am meeting (again) with the engineers from Northern Tool, who will be here in Florida for the PWNA Convention. They listened to me a few years ago, and incorporated a unique pressure switch from Honeywell, that shuts the pump down more gradually, for longer life. We feel that air pumps are still better, but we suggest the NorthStar 12 volt pumps, for those who wish to use a 12 volt roof cleaning pump system.
 
I will suggest to the Northern Tool Engineers that they make a version of their pump w/o any bypass switch at all! Their pumps have heavy duty motors rated for no time limit on how long u can run them. Then, you can run the pump with a bypass hose and a pressure regulator that will bypass excess flow and pressure, back into your tank! So, when you shut off the gun, the pump will continue to run, and provide agitation of your roof cleaning mix.
 
Of course, u best have a good battery, but I say Fuk a battery, why not simply have a Generator, and a heavy duty 117 to 12 volt power supply, to run your pump 
 
 These guys make a 117 VAC to 12 VDC power supply that will do 30 amps all day long for only 60.00!http://www.12voltpowersupplies.us/
 
Roof Cleaners (in the future) will use low priced AC Generators, that will power these types of power supplies, that will power 12 volt pumps. LOL, charging batteries will soon be a relic of old technology, a remnant of the past! Just as my introduction of air pumps for roof cleaning changed things for us all, so will my new technology suggestions change the way we use 12 volt pumps. 12 volt Pump life will be greatly increased, because there shall be no more of the pumps starving for current from a 1/2 dead battery, that creates unwanted heat, and strain on our pumps. The new generation of 12 volt roof cleaning pumps will run constantly,with 100% of it's voltage and current needs met, and pressure switches, with their sudden stopping and starting of the pumps shall be eliminated. 
 
Once again, I will change the roof cleaning world, and make life better, for all of us  
 
Wisely, the head engineers at Northern Tool have chosen to seek me out again, and to implement my suggestions in their products. I also want to see them offer an optional pump head for their 12 volt pumps made out of KYNAR, instead of Polyproplyne. KYNAR never needs rinsed guys, and has much better UV Resistance as well. I have some other improvements for their engineering team as well, that will make life better for us all, who use 12 volt roof cleaning pumps.
 


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Leading the way in product development - you go Chris!!

We've gone through (and continue to go through) MANY, MANY pumps.  Often times the weak link appears to be the 'head gasket' if you will. Once SH starts to seep into the motor cavity, it doesn't take long to zap the motor.  I'd like to see a belt drive 12v system with modular replacement parts 



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Roof Cleaning Northern Virginia (571) 250 9650 wrote:

Leading the way in product development - you go Chris!!

We've gone through (and continue to go through) MANY, MANY pumps.  Often times the weak link appears to be the 'head gasket' if you will. Once SH starts to seep into the motor cavity, it doesn't take long to zap the motor.  I'd like to see a belt drive 12v system with modular replacement parts 


 Hey Ted, everyone has a preference on pumps,..just curious though why you haven't switched to an air system?  The air pumps are tougher than any of the other pumps used for roof cleaning, hands down.  Seems like it would be a good move if you're going through that many pumps,..but,.yet,..I know we all have are reasons and preferences.

Jeff



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Date: Oct 27, 2014
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Jeff - It's a matter of space more than anything. 

Even with bed rail (?) tool boxes, there simply isn't room based on what we use for a typical job. I'm toying with the idea of enclosed trailers for additional rigs.  Perhaps we'll use air systems then. 



-- Edited by Roof Cleaning Northern Virginia (571) 250 9650 on Monday 27th of October 2014 07:37:34 AM

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American-ProTech 
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Yea Ted,..after looking at all those pumps,.(Assuming they're dead),...I'd find room for an air system.

Jeff

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Roof Cleaning Central Pennsylvania

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Date: Oct 27, 2014
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Roof Cleaning Northern Virginia (571) 250 9650 wrote:

 

Jeff - It's a matter of space more than anything. 

Even with bed rail (?) tool boxes, there simply isn't room based on what we use for a typical job. I'm toying with the idea of enclosed trailers for additional rigs.  Perhaps we'll use air systems then. 



-- Edited by Roof Cleaning Northern Virginia (571) 250 9650 on Monday 27th of October 2014 07:37:34 AM


 Ted, if you plan to stay with the 12 volt pumps, have u tried the Northern Tool Northstar pumps yet ? 



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I hear ya Jeff.  That free space that I manage to keep available?  It makes us a lot of money.  I realize that I run my business a bit different than others do, but it works very well for us.  Here it is the end of October and we did over 3.3k on one truck today.  (That is not a typo.) It should have been  3.435k, but I was short something I should have had with me...$975 of the days revenue was largely due to having some extra room.

According to my calculations, those pumps cost me about $1.60 per roof before they bite the dust.  I'm ok with that.  I do understand the benefits of the air systems too, although there are MANY ways to improve efficiency (like keeping room on my truck for other things    While our competition struggles, we're kickin' a$$. 

Chris - I have not tried the Northern Tool pumps yet but I'm sure willing to.  I really like being able to make purchases on the local economy.



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Roof Cleaning Northern Virginia (571) 250 9650 wrote:

 Chris - I have not tried the Northern Tool pumps yet but I'm sure willing to.  I really like being able to make purchases on the local economy.


 The Northern Tool Pumps that carry the Northstar name all have motors rated to run all the time, vs the intermittent duty cycle of other pumps, but just as important, they have Honeywell Pressure Switches, that are a lot easier on the pumps.

The Honeywell Switches gradually shut the pumps down vs the other switches, that basically slam the pump on and then off.

I had some input on their design, when the Northern Tool Engineers sought me out, and I am meeting with them once again, after the PWNA Convention in Orlando.

I want to see them make a 12 volt pump with NO Pressure Switch at all! This way, you can simply bypass the pump back into the tank with a pressure regulator, and allow the pump to run all the time! 

As long as the motor is rated for this kind of a duty cycle, and the battery or power source does not let us down, this could be a great setup.

Another great setup will be to make their pumps available with a 117 VAC motor, vs a 12 volt motor, so we can simply run them off a Generator, and do away with all this 12 volt nonsense biggrin

 



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Date: Oct 28, 2014
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Hey Ted,..yea I hear you on the cost factor,..as everything in this business is VERY cost effective,...I guess I was speaking more of the "one less issue" factor. But either way,.. your business practices work and don't need to explain to anyone. I'm just nosey, Ha,Ha,...

Jeff

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Ted, what do you intend to do with your collection of dead pumps...LOL? I experience the same issue with my Fat Boy. Is it possible to simply replace the leaky head gasket?

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Advantage Roof Cleaning wrote:

Ted, what do you intend to do with your collection of dead pumps...LOL? I experience the same issue with my Fat Boy. Is it possible to simply replace the leaky head gasket?


 I finally tossed them all not long ago Dave.  (And the collection had grown since that pic was taken)  The plan was to salvage parts and create a few good pumps from the various pieces.  With the corrosion, most of the screws were breaking off and I said to heck with them. 

I think the key would be replacing the 'head gasket' proactively, with something than can take the corrosion and the pressure long term.  Interesting thought process my friend.  I think we'll need to let that roll around in the noggin' for a bit.

Chris T - any known sources for 1/16 - 1/32th sheets of kynar?  Dave just might be on to something here.



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RCIA Founder

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Date: Oct 28, 2014
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Roof Cleaning Northern Virginia (571) 250 9650 wrote:
Advantage Roof Cleaning wrote:

Ted, what do you intend to do with your collection of dead pumps...LOL? I experience the same issue with my Fat Boy. Is it possible to simply replace the leaky head gasket?


 I finally tossed them all not long ago Dave.  (And the collection had grown since that pic was taken)  The plan was to salvage parts and create a few good pumps from the various pieces.  With the corrosion, most of the screws were breaking off and I said to heck with them. 

I think the key would be replacing the 'head gasket' proactively, with something than can take the corrosion and the pressure long term.  Interesting thought process my friend.  I think we'll need to let that roll around in the noggin' for a bit.

Chris T - any known sources for 1/16 - 1/32th sheets of kynar?  Dave just might be on to something here.


 Kynar is very hard plastic, not good for gaskets, Viton is one answer



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Teflon is also a good choice of material to use with SH.

Jeff

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Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

Teflon is also a good choice of material to use with SH.

Jeff


 Teflon Gaskets are to be had, but they Take a Set, if you know what I mean



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Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

Teflon is also a good choice of material to use with SH.

Jeff


 Teflon Gaskets are to be had, but they Take a Set, if you know what I mean


 Hey Chris,..I must be slow,..Ha,Ha,...what do you mean??  Really,..I don't get what your saying???

Jeff



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Raystown Roof Cleaning
Central, Pa

(814) 644-1396 or 1-800-236-0322

Roof Cleaning Central Pennsylvania

Huntingdon, State College, Lewistown, Altoona









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Date: Nov 4, 2014
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Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:
Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

Teflon is also a good choice of material to use with SH.

Jeff


 Teflon Gaskets are to be had, but they Take a Set, if you know what I mean


 Hey Chris,..I must be slow,..Ha,Ha,...what do you mean??  Really,..I don't get what your saying???

Jeff


 Jeff, once you compress a Teflon Gasket, they retain the memory of that compression, they take a set!

 

Here is what we talked about today with the Northern Tool Engineers.

 

One area we touched on a lot was about 12 volt pumps. Pressure Switches are the number one failure part on any 12 volt pump. When a 12 volt pump has a nozzle that is small on it, it cycles on and off. Though Northern Tool 12 volt pump have the best pressure switches of any 12 volt pump, they can still fail. The answer is to eliminate the pressure switch, but most 12 volt pump have limited duty cycle motors, and will burn up if you try this. But not the Northern Tool Pumps! They told me they have run the pump fully loaded for DAYS off a 12 volt high amp power supply, with no overheating! 

A Delavan Fat Boy, or the FloJet Pentaflex 12 volt pumps can not handle this! They are not rated for a continuing duty cycle, and will burn up, if you try to run them this way. 

I think I convinced the Northern Tool guys to offer their 12 volt pump w/o a pressure switch, so here is how we will run them. Using a pressure regulator, we will simply run a bypass hose back into the tank, so that way, when we shut off our guns, the pressure and flow will simply run back into the tank, and provide agitation for our mix! 

Surprisingly, they were aware of PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) speed controllers, that we can use to control the speed (that will control the pressure and flow) of our 12 volt pumps! 

Imagine this guys, we put a smaller nozzle on our 12 volt pumps to mist soffits with, and instead of the pump cycling, we simply dial the pump speed down, to fit the freaking nozzles we are using! LOL, no more burnt up pumps, or hokey accumilators !!!!

Right now, the Northern Tool Pumps are using Santoprene Diaphragms, and I suggested either Teflon or Viton instead.

Their pump heads are made of glass filled Poly, but I told them many of us would gladly pay extra for a KYNAR or Virgin Poly Pump Head.

The Pressure Regulators we will be using when we get a pump w/o a pressure switch will need to have either Hastelloy or Titanium Springs, for best life. 

We also talked about getting away from Battery Power for the 12 volt pumps, and instead using high amp 12 volt DC Power Supplies, powered by small AC Generators. 

Small AC Generators are cheap, and so are high amp 12 volt DC power supplies.



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Date: Nov 13, 2014
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I like the sound of everything except using a generator.
That takes away the whole simplistic idea of using a 12 volt pump!
I will always stick with using a battery.
I would give a bypass pump a try though-but I think, with the replacement cost so low, the demand pump will always reign as king for me!
I have 2 pumps set up in my enclosed trailer and a backup in my truck's back seat.
To me, the 12 volt pump setup is a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" situation.
Improvements would be welcome though.
I tried a Northern pump maybe 5 years ago and it didn't last long at all?? Maybe just a fluke?
I just bought 2 Delavan 5 GPM pumps at PW-Mall for $109.00 each.
There's no way I'm gonna start running a generator, when I can just spent $109.00 every 6-8 months on a pump.
Still, I appreciate your other thoughts on improvements Chris!


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I haven't tried an electric since about 1998 or so,...and then it was for applying house wash. I was using 1/4" hose due to weight,...It sucked really bad. But that was my uneducated fault and not the pumps. Never knew about friction loss back then,..but,..oh how much we learn over the years,Ha,Ha,...

If I didn't like my air so much I may be willing to try air again,..but seeing how I always have a compressor on board for another purpose,..there is no benefit for me to use a 12V. Not to mention the SH resiliency of an air pump compared to anything else. But again,..it's what works for who's doing the work that counts.

Jeff

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Central, Pa

(814) 644-1396 or 1-800-236-0322

Roof Cleaning Central Pennsylvania

Huntingdon, State College, Lewistown, Altoona









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Date: Nov 25, 2014
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The best thing about Northern 12v pumps is the extended warranty...I've had two replaced on warranty. We do very little roof cleaning, so I wasn't impressed with the pumps but they were priced right and locally available. The honeywell switches aren't all you're stacking them up to be Chris, but you're right that's the weak link on every pump I've owned. I've added accumulators to my pumps and that seems to help, but I even just had a Delavan 2.1gpm pump switch failure, and I was gravity feeding it pure water for my window cleaning setup with an accumulator as well! It just wouldn't shut off and was spraying like a power washer! The adjustment screw didn't seem to do anything though I don't really know what its there for. Pumptec makes lots of constant run pumps, I use them on my deckster type stain sprayers. Northern sells those as well. If you want a switchless pump to spray over 4gpm, you're talking major amps! That's my 2 cents...

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John Burdine wrote:

The best thing about Northern 12v pumps is the extended warranty...I've had two replaced on warranty. We do very little roof cleaning, so I wasn't impressed with the pumps but they were priced right and locally available. The honeywell switches aren't all you're stacking them up to be Chris, but you're right that's the weak link on every pump I've owned. I've added accumulators to my pumps and that seems to help, but I even just had a Delavan 2.1gpm pump switch failure, and I was gravity feeding it pure water for my window cleaning setup with an accumulator as well! It just wouldn't shut off and was spraying like a power washer! The adjustment screw didn't seem to do anything though I don't really know what its there for. Pumptec makes lots of constant run pumps, I use them on my deckster type stain sprayers. Northern sells those as well. If you want a switchless pump to spray over 4gpm, you're talking major amps! That's my 2 cents...


 Yes, if you use a constant run electric pump to clean roofs with, it will draw a lot of amps from the battery or 12 volt DC Power supply, but consider this. Most Marine Batteries are made to run a trolling motor for many hours, and they pull some amps too! Always be sure to run really thick gage wire from the power supply to the 12 volt roof cleaning pump



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711 Westbrook

Brandon, FL 33511

813 655 8777

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Click here for more information

Here are more of our services

Watch a short video

 




 

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