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Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America Certified Roof Cleaning Specialist

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Date: Jul 30, 2011
RE: New pump problems
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Maverick Contracting wrote:

Will, Joe, Chuck...

I agree on the air issue.

Just got back from the shop after trouble shootin/bench testing.

I also primed back into tank to purge the air, was workin fine if I shot against the wall so as not to airate the "mix" (in this test case just water). when shootin striaght down near pickup had the same problem.  Airating the H2O caused problem.

Bench test:

(1) ran pump straight out w/o 200ft of hose (short connection from pump/acc. to bandit trigger)

(2) 5/8" hose but hose barbs inner dia. is 1/2"

(3) with this and open p.u. tube (no strainer) bench tested pump @ 5gpm

(4) with this and homemade pvc filter still 5gpm which means no restriction from filter

as per #(1) strong flow w/o probs, adding #40 tips some flow/cycling probs. )(air buildup in sys)

I DID notice that if fluid level got within 2-4 inches or so of filter it started to have issues.  I suspect the strong pull (suction) of this pump caused cavitation that caused a "whirlpool" pulling in air and stalling pump.  Guess I should have enough mix to stop before that point.

 

 Maybe thats my problem or maybe I over analyze shi'ite!

 

You said "when shootin striaght down near pickup had the same problem.  Airating the H2O caused problem" ABSOLUTELY-EVERY TIME!



If you shoot near your pickup filter, it is definately going to break up the even suction stream and cause cavitation. Getting to within 2-4" of the filter should have no effect. I have never seen a whirlpool personally? More likely a pinhole in the last 4" of tube.

-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Saturday 30th of July 2011 11:48:49 AM


 



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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Date: Jul 30, 2011
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Roof Cleaning New Braunfels TX 830-660-9849 wrote:

I've only had 1 prob with my 5850 and it was fixed with a micro relay.....grabbed 2 spares since there is only one place in tx that carrys the same model


Can you explain the problem and how the relay solved it?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Thanks!



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Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.

941-698-1959
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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Date: Jul 30, 2011
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It wouldn't click on and off like it was supposed too,and it's like i wasn't getting any power, at first I thought it was loose wiring,I would shake my pump alittle and the relay would click on until I fully closed the ball valve again stopping the pump thats when It wouldn't click back on without vigoris shaking.......(this problem happend at like 4:00 in the morning) I felt it getting hot and figured there had to be some type of switch inside, found the switch called a thousand people and found a place outta texas that sells them. The place is Mouser electronics.

It's kinda hard to explaing but if your pump is stuck in the on or off mode or maybe flickering on and off that might be your problem unless there is air in the inlet line on the pump and that would also cause it to not shut-off aswell....

I use a Y connection on the inlet of my pump so I can easily change from chem to straight water and also one on the outlet to let any air escape that's built up before my hose reel, For some reason it primes better with the Y on the outlet I will take some pics and show ya.

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Date: Jul 30, 2011
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I'd like to see that Y setup, Will.  I was considering the same.  It would make it much easier.



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Date: Jul 30, 2011
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Chuck, those are Omron Limit Switches (part # V-15-2C26-K), not relays.  I also buy them from Mouser Electronics.  You can get 25of them @ $2.17 ea.   

The reason they burn up is due to the repeated cycling of the pumps.  This creates heat which burns up the contacts within the switch.

 

Chris, the Flo Jet Pentaflex does not have a built in pump bypass in it.  Scott Davis told me that and I doubted him.  A pump with an internal bypass runs all of the time.  This pump cuts out just like the Delavan at a preset pressure.  I called the ITT factory, spoke with an engineer, and confirmed my suspicion. 



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Date: Jul 30, 2011
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Sorry limit switches....lol

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Date: Jul 30, 2011
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Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 wrote:

Chuck, those are Omron Limit Switches (part # V-15-2C26-K), not relays.  I also buy them from Mouser Electronics.  You can get 25of them @ $2.17 ea.   

The reason they burn up is due to the repeated cycling of the pumps.  This creates heat which burns up the contacts within the switch.

 

Chris, the Flo Jet Pentaflex does not have a built in pump bypass in it.  Scott Davis told me that and I doubted him.  A pump with an internal bypass runs all of the time.  This pump cuts out just like the Delavan at a preset pressure.  I called the ITT factory, spoke with an engineer, and confirmed my suspicion. 


I see. I have had very few problems with the 5850 pumps I use. Usually, by the time a problem comes up, it's about time to change it out anyway. However, I have had a couple quit prematurely and in those cases, it would be nice to have one of these limit switches on hand to try switching out. Where are they located? Is it a simple replacement?

PS: If you buy the 25 at a time, would you care to sell 2 of them?

Thanks,

Chuck



-- Edited by Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 on Saturday 30th of July 2011 10:37:44 PM

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Chuck, I buy them 25 at a time because shipping is $10.20.  No, I do not have time to send some to you.  I live in the country and it would not be convenient to ship them.  Just google Mouser Electronics.

I do not own a 5850 pump and can not help you there.  They are also used in Delavan Fat Boy pumps and shur flo pumps.



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Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

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Date: Jul 31, 2011
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Marcus wrote:

"Chris, the Flo Jet Pentaflex does not have a built in pump bypass in it. Scott Davis told me that and I doubted him. A pump with an internal bypass runs all of the time. This pump cuts out just like the Delavan at a preset pressure. I called the ITT factory, spoke with an engineer, and confirmed my suspicion. "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I thought the same thing when I first heard of the Pentaflex and the bypass, I'm no certified engineer but think like one and also figured if theres a bypass it would build up pressure and instead of shutting off, the bypass would alleviate the pressure an continue to run (kinda like what I hear cycling when what I suspect is air in my system)

I'm lookin for where it says theres an internal bypass with the pentaflex. To be continued....

 

BTW still wonderin if the accumilator is really needed, helpful or should I remove it and set it up on a smaller gpm pump ?



-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Sunday 31st of July 2011 07:14:15 AM



-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Sunday 31st of July 2011 07:15:04 AM

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Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 wrote:

Chuck, I buy them 25 at a time because shipping is $10.20.  No, I do not have time to send some to you.  I live in the country and it would not be convenient to ship them.  Just google Mouser Electronics.

I do not own a 5850 pump and can not help you there.  They are also used in Delavan Fat Boy pumps and shur flo pumps.


I understand. I just thought you might have more on hand than you'd ever have use for and wouldn't mind getting some of your money back.

If they are in Shur Flo pumps, I have a few old Shur Flos, plus a couple of broken 5850's that I could canibalize come to think of it.



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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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I ve had my all flow pump for over 2 yrs now with absolutely no major problems and i can put any size nozzle i want and get about a 45 ft stream to a fan tip.

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I have 2 All Flo pumps, 1 Delevan, & 1 Flojet Pentaflex pump mounted and ready to go.  I started with the All Flo pumps but I did not like the pulsating of the pumps.  I use them now for transfer pumps or when the 12 volt pumps break down. 

When transferring SH between containers you have to keep a hand on the output hose of the All Flo pump or it will come out of the container that you are transferring SH to due to the pulsating affect.

The other 2 pumps (12 volt) do not pulsate but the Delavan some times blows relays.  I am now testing the Flojet Pentaflex pump to see if I like it.

 



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Here are the full flow Y's that I was talking about



-- Edited by Roof Cleaning New Braunfels TX 830-660-9849 on Sunday 31st of July 2011 11:49:33 PM

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Date: Aug 1, 2011
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Thanks for posting the pics Will.

I understand it now.  It's smart and convenient!



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Roof Cleaning New Braunfels TX 830-660-9849 wrote:

Here are the full flow Y's that I was talking about



-- Edited by Roof Cleaning New Braunfels TX 830-660-9849 on Sunday 31st of July 2011 11:49:33 PM


The idea is fine-I have had that setup in the past, but using PVC.

Just a few tips from my experience.

#1.Those Y's are corroding and if used on the intake side, will suck aluminum pieces into the pump and kill it before long.

#2. the corrosion will eventually make them literally fall apart and pump SH all over, while you are on a roof.

#3. I had that "pump in a box" setup and felt it was just making the pump run hotter than needed. I liked the setup I had otherwise-just not the pump replacements.

Last thought, pumps last the longest if set up standing bottom side up-with the electrical part on the bottom-like this.



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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Date: Aug 1, 2011
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What Chuck is saying is true.  Pumps in a box will overheat the pump and always mount them electric side up.  This is what my pump setup looks like.

 



-- Edited by Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 on Monday 1st of August 2011 11:04:35 AM

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Professional Roof Cleaning, Power Washing,
& Pressure Washing services company in
Houston Tx, Katy Tx, Fulshear Tx,
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Katy, Texas
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Date: Aug 1, 2011
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Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 wrote:

What Chuck is saying is true.  Pumps in a box will overheat the pump and always mount them electric side up.  This is what my pump setup looks like.

 



-- Edited by Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 on Monday 1st of August 2011 11:04:35 AM


WOW! That's a beautiful rig setup you have there Marcus! biggrin

I used to set my pumps up the "logical looking" way-electric side up.

However, that leaves any SH leaks that occur, to run into the motor/armature and once in there, it's a gonner.

Now I mount them upside down, any leaks get into the replaceable electronics instead.

Now, my pumps last up to 2 years. Of course, if you never get any SH on the pump at all, it won't matter. Putting it in a hotbox will!

I work my stuff so hard, it don't stay looking too pretty! hmm



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Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.

941-698-1959
www.bergmanroofcleaning.com

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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I am in awe of those pictures guys!  Thank you for posting them!

Is that a stainless-steel tank Marcus, or painted?  If stainless, why was that chosen?  Looks very sharp.  Of course, now I have rig envy.  aww

Like you mentioned, Chuck, I thought to mount the motor side down, connections up.  Seemed logical to me, as you said.  Gave it a re-think, though, and caught it in time before mounting.  It's like yours now.  The placement of yours looks convenient.



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Mine is upside down protecting the motor of the pump just in case of leaks so it doesn't fry my motor......I've also never really had a prob with heat just leave the door open on my box, I think it would go faster sitting in the straight sun....... And the Y's work for me for now, till I feel like changing it up again. This set-up works great for me and I have no problems when working, very easy truck to work out of for me.


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And that's salt buildup on my Y's...lol

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