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Kendrick Services wrote:

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Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:

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Presidential Pressure Washing wrote:

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Chuck said it all, I will take your rambling on any day. Very sound insight! I agree.
Kim R

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Thanks Kim! Well, there's one who feels similarly to me!

Hope you son is improving?

Chuck

 

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Make it two. Very sound advice.

 

 

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Patrick Carder wrote:

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Kendrick Services wrote:

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Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:

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Presidential Pressure Washing wrote:

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Chuck said it all, I will take your rambling on any day. Very sound insight! I agree.
Kim R

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Thanks Kim! Well, there's one who feels similarly to me!

Hope you son is improving?

Chuck

 

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Make it two. Very sound advice.

 

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Make it three if you are keeping score Chuck, and if you are getting 80% of the jobs you are estimating your prices are very competitive. We shoot for about 60% just to let us know if our prices are in the range of our competitors.

 

 

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I bid most of my jobs in person to get 80% or better. It's time consuming and costly on gas, but will up your % of successful bids.
If I bid them over the phone [when I get lazy] it's closer to 50-60%
I think it helps enormously, if the customer gets to see you and your vehicle etc. That way, they don't have to fear that a guy with a pony tail and a beer, will show up in a station wagon to do the job!
Not to insult anyones ponytail!

Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:

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Matthew wrote:

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There are hundreds of those guys with those prices in Florida.

Most use a pressure washer.
A few use SH from a pool supplier, water and a little dawn and spray 15 gallons on a 2,000 sqft house.
None of them run a business. It's Bob and Tom and equipment they hope never breaks.
None of them use safety gear.
None of them have a freaking clue as to the why's and how's.
All of them bid in my area!

The truth is the home owners don't care.
Most of the home owners in Florida will be dead in ten years and their houses are worth 1/2 of what they were 5 years ago.
You're lucky to find 10 people in 1,000 who will pay more than that for a qualified, responsible, insured roof cleaner.

They'll pay $100 a day to golf, $200 a month for green grass, but they have a heart attack when you say it'll be $450 to do a $3,000 sqft barrel tile roof the right way.

Anybody hiring?

'cause I'm about to either move my business or crawl into my mix tank and take a deep breath.

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After reading all the posts so far in this, I agree with Calahan. I go bid tile roofs in the 2500 - 3000 sq ft range in an area called Englewood Isles. When I give them my $350.00 - $500.00  price, very often, they say, "there is a guy doing them for $150.00 each here I'll call you back later" and I only get 50% of what I bid there, at best. There are a number of other developments with a similar scenario around here. Like Waterford in Venice, there is a guy doing tile roofs for $125.00 in there and the people are happy with him and I only get maybe 20% of what I bid there!
In general, I usually get over 80% of what I bid-probably more than that?
These guys most likely have no license or insurance and are happy to make  a hundred bucks a day average. Heck, their last job and life's experience was saying "Do you want fries wiith that"?
Nothing can be done about it. I faced one guy down and tried to reason with him on what he was losing out on. I told him "I make in 1 day, what you make in a week, doing the same thing" He nicely said, "I'm happy if I can make $15.00 an hour or more" He really didn't seem to care at all????
All we can do is be more professional, remind customers what can happen to them if they hire inexperienced, unlicensed, uninsured workers and just price the jobs for what we need to make.
On the other hand:
Oh Oh, this is where I step on toes?
I have seen a number of roof cleaners here talk about doing roofs in 2 - 3 hours and making $700.00 [ that sort of thing ]
Now, to me, that is just about as bad for this business! Sure, a few people will fall for that overpricing, but in the long run, you are pushing them toward the lowballers, by overcharging them so much.
We all need to be fair and reasonable-no $99.00 roofs, but neither do we need to be making $300 - $400 an hour either.
I shoot for $500.00 - $600.00 a day in my area.
That's either 1 job at $550.00 or maybe 2 smaller ones at $250 - $300 each.
There is stupidity $99 roofs, Decent wages $500.00 a day and greed $300.00 an hour. We are not brain surgeons!
I've done this no pressure roof cleaning since 1991 and I've tried a little lowballing, when I was newer at it, to get a few jobs under my belt, but regretted it later, when that same customer, or his neighbors, wanted a similar price next time.
I have also gotten in the greedy mode, when business was thriving and gotten roofs for $700 - $900.00 and did them in 4 hours. Most of those folks, learned from their friends and neighbors, that my price was ridiculously high and I lost the customer - and neighborhood, completely, to a more reasonably priced professional. But, for the last 15 years or so, I've learned to use common sence and get decent daily pay and keep the customers. I now have a large enough customer base, that I am planning on stopping all yellow pages advertising this year! I cut out about $300 a month of it already. To me, that's better than making an occasional killing and ruining your name in a neighborhood.
Well, I'm ramblin' again!
But, I have had enough years of experience, to know there is some truth in what I'm saying. Of course, I am talking about a 1 man operation-not 2 or more. If a 2nd man [perhaps a ground man ] is needed, you have to add his daily pay to yours + a little extra.
I'm sure there are lots of folks here who feel differently. I wonder though, how many feel the same?
Chuck Bergman

 

 

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Chuck you are stating good business truths here.  At first I was unsure why you thought the $700 in 4 hours was high, but then saw you are talking a one man crew.  We currently have 4 employes including myself and my wife.  As a service model we need $200 an hour to meet overhead and have a small amount of profit in the company as well pay ourselfs $40k a year each.

I have a feeling you know your numbers very well, and have for some time.  I do as well brother and the truth is many here are still figuring it out.  We love our Quickbooks as we can generate reports that tell us exactly what percentage of every dollar we bring in goes were.  When you truly understand your numbers you can start to truly rule your financial life, and your business.

One truck pulling in $1200-$1600 a day will not change the world or make you rich, but it will make the math work in your favor and that is the point of being in business.  We don't do it to lose money or make less money than the $60k+ a year job I left.

The only way I will be getting my 60K+ a year back in my paycheck will be when I get the second crew rolling and at that time will have 6-7 employees.  So remember guys, Chuck here is talking about running a business, his numbers are working for his amount of employees and his expected pay.  Unfortunately the guys that are hurting us are the ones as Chuck mentions do not run a business, have no insurance, no real overhead that makes them legitimate and in Florida they are a crushing force on the true business person.

Now don't get me wrong, if you are just starting there will be pricing, budgeting and filing mistakes, and your prices will vary as you figure it out.  I think that is perfectly fine.  It is the guy that has done this for years and still makes $20k or less a year that is killing us.

Baltimore MD Roof Cleaning 410-482-4367 wrote:

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Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:

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Matthew wrote:

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There are hundreds of those guys with those prices in Florida.

Most use a pressure washer.
A few use SH from a pool supplier, water and a little dawn and spray 15 gallons on a 2,000 sqft house.
None of them run a business. It's Bob and Tom and equipment they hope never breaks.
None of them use safety gear.
None of them have a freaking clue as to the why's and how's.
All of them bid in my area!

The truth is the home owners don't care.
Most of the home owners in Florida will be dead in ten years and their houses are worth 1/2 of what they were 5 years ago.
You're lucky to find 10 people in 1,000 who will pay more than that for a qualified, responsible, insured roof cleaner.

They'll pay $100 a day to golf, $200 a month for green grass, but they have a heart attack when you say it'll be $450 to do a $3,000 sqft barrel tile roof the right way.

Anybody hiring?

'cause I'm about to either move my business or crawl into my mix tank and take a deep breath.

---

After reading all the posts so far in this, I agree with Calahan. I go bid tile roofs in the 2500 - 3000 sq ft range in an area called Englewood Isles. When I give them my $350.00 - $500.00  price, very often, they say, "there is a guy doing them for $150.00 each here I'll call you back later" and I only get 50% of what I bid there, at best. There are a number of other developments with a similar scenario around here. Like Waterford in Venice, there is a guy doing tile roofs for $125.00 in there and the people are happy with him and I only get maybe 20% of what I bid there!
In general, I usually get over 80% of what I bid-probably more than that?
These guys most likely have no license or insurance and are happy to make  a hundred bucks a day average. Heck, their last job and life's experience was saying "Do you want fries wiith that"?
Nothing can be done about it. I faced one guy down and tried to reason with him on what he was losing out on. I told him "I make in 1 day, what you make in a week, doing the same thing" He nicely said, "I'm happy if I can make $15.00 an hour or more" He really didn't seem to care at all????
All we can do is be more professional, remind customers what can happen to them if they hire inexperienced, unlicensed, uninsured workers and just price the jobs for what we need to make.
On the other hand:
Oh Oh, this is where I step on toes?
I have seen a number of roof cleaners here talk about doing roofs in 2 - 3 hours and making $700.00 [ that sort of thing ]
Now, to me, that is just about as bad for this business! Sure, a few people will fall for that overpricing, but in the long run, you are pushing them toward the lowballers, by overcharging them so much.
We all need to be fair and reasonable-no $99.00 roofs, but neither do we need to be making $300 - $400 an hour either.
I shoot for $500.00 - $600.00 a day in my area.
That's either 1 job at $550.00 or maybe 2 smaller ones at $250 - $300 each.
There is stupidity $99 roofs, Decent wages $500.00 a day and greed $300.00 an hour. We are not brain surgeons!
I've done this no pressure roof cleaning since 1991 and I've tried a little lowballing, when I was newer at it, to get a few jobs under my belt, but regretted it later, when that same customer, or his neighbors, wanted a similar price next time.
I have also gotten in the greedy mode, when business was thriving and gotten roofs for $700 - $900.00 and did them in 4 hours. Most of those folks, learned from their friends and neighbors, that my price was ridiculously high and I lost the customer - and neighborhood, completely, to a more reasonably priced professional. But, for the last 15 years or so, I've learned to use common sence and get decent daily pay and keep the customers. I now have a large enough customer base, that I am planning on stopping all yellow pages advertising this year! I cut out about $300 a month of it already. To me, that's better than making an occasional killing and ruining your name in a neighborhood.
Well, I'm ramblin' again!
But, I have had enough years of experience, to know there is some truth in what I'm saying. Of course, I am talking about a 1 man operation-not 2 or more. If a 2nd man [perhaps a ground man ] is needed, you have to add his daily pay to yours + a little extra.
I'm sure there are lots of folks here who feel differently. I wonder though, how many feel the same?
Chuck Bergman

 

 

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Chuck you are stating good business truths here.  At first I was unsure why you thought the $700 in 4 hours was high, but then saw you are talking a one man crew.  We currently have 4 employes including myself and my wife.  As a service model we need $200 an hour to meet overhead and have a small amount of profit in the company as well pay ourselfs $40k a year each.

I have a feeling you know your numbers very well, and have for some time.  I do as well brother and the truth is many here are still figuring it out.  We love our Quickbooks as we can generate reports that tell us exactly what percentage of every dollar we bring in goes were.  When you truly understand your numbers you can start to truly rule your financial life, and your business.

One truck pulling in $1200-$1600 a day will not change the world or make you rich, but it will make the math work in your favor and that is the point of being in business.  We don't do it to lose money or make less money than the $60k+ a year job I left.

The only way I will be getting my 60K+ a year back in my paycheck will be when I get the second crew rolling and at that time will have 6-7 employees.  So remember guys, Chuck here is talking about running a business, his numbers are working for his amount of employees and his expected pay.  Unfortunately the guys that are hurting us are the ones as Chuck mentions do not run a business, have no insurance, no real overhead that makes them legitimate and in Florida they are a crushing force on the true business person.

Now don't get me wrong, if you are just starting there will be pricing, budgeting and filing mistakes, and your prices will vary as you figure it out.  I think that is perfectly fine.  It is the guy that has done this for years and still makes $20k or less a year that is killing us.

I guess I could just go back to my job for that money, a friend of mine just offered to hire me last week as he is picking up and needs good mechanics.  If anyone wants to be a union rag wrapper (pipe insulator) when they grow up in MD, give me a ring and I will hook you up with some companies and the hall.  I will be working towards the goal here and trying to help and motivate you good folk to do the same.

-- Edited by Baltimore MD Roof Cleaning 410-482-4367 on Tuesday 22nd of February 2011 10:36:15 AM

-- Edited by Baltimore MD Roof Cleaning 410-482-4367 on Tuesday 22nd of February 2011 10:39:26 AM

 

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Hi Bill
Yes, Mine is a father and son business and my son does all the work unless it's more than he can handle-then I work seperately.
Because we either tarp or run sprinklers constantly on the plants, we can work alone. I just realized, I left out another factor, in my case. We also do pressure cleaning of all surfaces except roofs, so a $350.00 roof that takes 3 hours, can easily double by working another 2 hours= - House $100.00 Pool enclosure & deck $125.00 Driveway & walk $85.00 [ Just Averages ]
I have had up to a 5 man work crew back in 1980- 1985 Painting & Pressure Cleaning only at that time in Ithaca, NY and it drove me nuts and was hard to actually come out ahead, after all the costs involved with having employees- workers comp, unemployment, social security, other insurances etc etc- so I stopped it and simplified. I would never go back to that again.

I just passed on bidding a 66 roof complex of large houses, because it would interfere with my regular customers- or make me hire people - been there done that and never again! As you all know, if you price out a 66 roof complex, you can't get regular prices. A $450.00 roof - if bid X 66 will have to be more like $300.00 and most likely, you won't get the job at that!

As just father & son, we both make what we need, without the extra stress of crews and constant men in training- hiring and firing.
I really should have started my original post out, saying "FOR A 1 MAN OPERATION"
Oh, and I could NEVER go back to working an hourly job again!
Thanks
Chuck