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I guess what you are stating is  something like a commerical paint sprayer,,, for that what I will call for a lack of a better term,,,  is like fan spraying,,,  when I spray a wall with a paint sprayer and I am coming to a corner,  I begin to release the trigger about a foot from the corner and continue to move the gun, to fan out the spray as not to get too much overspray, as well as, not to get too much build up in corners and avoid  drips. 
This in turn means  I am releasing and pressing the trigger often,,,  as I am now lowering my sprayer and starting  to engage the trigger, to start the next course...

I could relate to your statement  and understand where you are coming from 

The only input I can have is little because I am not familiar with these pumps,  but the sprayers that I have used have been air sprayers ,,,  and have held up ,,  so maybe the air spayers are a little stronger and can take this type of stress.

So maybe an air pump, is better,, as it could take this demand of on again,  off again ,,, 

I don't know and will have to turn it to the experts on here,, Hey Guys what do you think ???


I understand your question and it has made me think ,,, as I am about to buy my first pump,,,, 

I plan to have some of my guy's as applicators and sometimes they will have different levels of expericence,,

 with this in mind ,,

I am also thinking which pump is better, for me,, as I am not going to be the one using this ,,,, and if I have different staff members using it,,,  what type of pump can handle  the abuse, and be tough enough ....

are electric pumps tuffer  than air pumps ???
And what about reach ,,, which pump gives more psi ,, and more psi therefore the  better reach ...  I am thinking the set up with an air compressor, is what one would naturaly think would give better reach but, with a little knowledge of this field ,,

As I am reading and every where I read,,, I find I know nothing,,, and there are really experts here.. and there is  such a $$$ wealth $$$  of information here.... 

or can reach be handled by the correct  Nozzle  /  tip  selection ...

A tip / pointer that  I used on other construction jobs that I have performed,,, in high rise buildings ,,, in which the equipment was placed on a lower floor  than where we were working , we use to run a  larger  hose , to start with from our pumps,, then the last 50' or twenty or so feet  we would reduce the hose size, and also place smaller tip to create psi and therefore get more reach because more  psi at the tip ,    you l then get more  reach and distance with  the spray ,, but knowing you would give up the volume by doing this ....................

I am asking for your expert advice, here ,,  as these are different pumps , and is a whole different field and I am asking for help here on these questions ,,, please I am a little confused ???   as i think volume is not the name of the game, but as I have read the fat boy gives more volume ,,, to complete the job more efficiently ,,, $$$$
but get control with little to no run off is the name of the game ,, less time to empty buckets, less damage ,,  less product less clean up time,,, less stress on the ground man... so far this is what I got from this wonderful site.  Chris Tucker  u d man. thank you man !!!

-- Edited by Big George on Thursday 24th of June 2010 08:04:39 AM

If you are not going to be doing the spraying, and may be a different person each time, I recommend going no bigger than the fatboy. Probably not even that big. The biggest problem with roof cleaning is plant and grass protection and you dont want new guys spraying at 10, 9, 8, even 7 gpm. Of the big guys I have talked to, I mean 3+ trucks working everyday, they use 3-5gpm electric. Low maintenance, easy to switch out if they fail, cheap, and less issues with plants due to lower runoff, and easier to teach a new guy how to control.

I use a Fatboy

Bill You're too easily tweaked. lol. Im not suggesting you can not train someone to use a high flow pump. But when you get 10-20-40 trucks your turnover is crazy and you have new people every week.

You're right, it is a difference in highly skilled labor and low skilled. I want to also know the difference in what you would pay someone who's highly skilled vs someone who is not.

Also, I wasnt aware Tucker had 3 trucks running everyday......

Baltimore MD Roof Cleaning 410-482-4367 wrote:

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Confident Roof Cleaning Houston TX wrote:

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Bill You're too easily tweaked. lol. Im not suggesting you can not train someone to use a high flow pump. But when you get 10-20-40 trucks your turnover is crazy and you have new people every week.

You're right, it is a difference in highly skilled labor and low skilled. I want to also know the difference in what you would pay someone who's highly skilled vs someone who is not.

Also, I wasnt aware Tucker had 3 trucks running everyday......

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Very true bro, 10 plus trucks and you probably will have some turnover.  There is definitly a big pay scale difference in the highly skilled and low skilled.  What's interesting about this is most franchises thrive on low skilled labor, so there is definitly a way to get it done.  The three trucks for Chris was a guess, I know he has multible trucks but I truely do not know if they are all on the road daily.  I have spoken to Mike (big George) on the phone and know he has high skilled labor in an already existing home services business, so that was really for him.  You didn't tweak me yet lol.  I can take a few hits.  That comment was more of a joke than anything else.  I personally am torn between which way is better.  I like my air pumps and they have some benifits, but the cost factor compared to an electric pump is huge, so I am really undecided which way is best.  I can tell you though, If I get to 10+ trucks I will probably use the electric, because as you said they offer more ease on the new guys, and they cost a lot less.  Truth be told, no matter what you use, it will break eventually, so the goal should be to keep the bottom line up and the repair costs down.  Following the example of the largest shop I have ever seen, they use electric pumps.

 

Had to edit my atrocious spelling lol, firefox missed it this time.

PS firefox has a spell checker built in that works as you type (most of the time), I know we were talking about this elsewhere on the forum.

-- Edited by Baltimore MD Roof Cleaning 410-482-4367 on Thursday 24th of June 2010 03:09:02 PM

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 I truly believe that there is no "better" way to clean a roof, and thats why I get so worked up and play devils advocate when the pump argument rears its ugly head. Every pump has pluses and minuses. I do not have 10 trucks so I can not say if electric is better than air in that respect. But like you Bill, just got to go with what the big guys say. I think Chris said Mallard used to buy the shurflos by the Pallet.

cweman wrote:

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Bill

I thought from reading previous threads that you used the All-Flo pump. Did you switch to the Ingersoll Rand Aro pump or have you always had the Ingersoll Rand? What model do you use?

I am using a Delevan 5850 and plan to go to an air diaphram pump. Most likely the 3/8" All-Flo from PWP. I have talked to a roof cleaner who uses an air diapharm pump and he tells me it has better flow control than the electric pumps. He indicates you can close the ball valve to minimize the flow down to almost nothing without affecting the pump. My electric likes it best when the ball valve is wide open. When I close the ball valve down to control flow (esp. at the edges of the roof) the electric pump cycles and vibrates and I don't think it likes to be under that condition. I also know the electric pumps life span in numbered in months where the air pumps will go years. I think when you take that into account the air pumps become a better financial choice in the long run.

What are you thoughts?

Charles

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We do have the all-flo 6gpm maxpass kvm-038 almost the same as Lori's.  We recently purchased 3 of the IR pumps.  They are 3/8 kynar and Teflon, offset with 10+gpm flow at 90psi 14 cfm.  We have tested them to produce 10cfm.  I currently run one on a polar air Eaton compressor 10 gallon tank 3 cylinder heads.  It is true that you can meter your flow at the gun without hurting the pump.  AOD pumps are designed to dead head when the pressure on both ends is equalized.  This means they are only under strenuous load if you go over the max air psi.

We also have a spare pump made by Wilden that stalls, this is because it is not an offset diaphragm like the IR and the All-flo.  The Yamadhas are not offset either, but they have a reset button.  An aro pump stalls by not being able to un-equalize the pressure caused in dead head mode.  Dead head is the term describing the pump being stopped by an equal amount of air pressure and liquid back pressure...ie: when you close the gun the pump stops.

here is a link to the pumps:
Link

The materials listed on that site are your options for materials.

thanks --- that was great ,,,, I enjoyed reading all of the post,,, I do have an old emglo gas 5 hp air compressor laying around in good shape,,, I will put it to work,,, and I have a couple of electric air compressors laying around ,,, so I going to throw one on the truck as a back up ,,, my guys know ,, to fix things ,,, if they get caught with their thum up their  *ss and smelling their fingers ,, pack it up ,, and go home ,,, or if they wait for me to fix it,,, I will ,,, but we are not going home until the job is done,,,, set up the spot lights,,, and they know I am not kidding,,, I have guys that are with me 15 plus years,,, they know if I am not making money the they are not making money,,, I make work fun,,, I don't buy lunch,,, I don't buy breakfast,, or anything except gatorade,,,, and water ,,, I pay them extra well, and say thank you alot,,, and mean it ,,, they are more loyal to me ,,, if I pay them extra then if I buy them lunch or breakfast,,,  it use to cost me close to $9,000.00 a year for that,,, and I am not kidding,,, but I took that same money and gave them bonuses,,,

always a prize ,,,,   the best looking roof ,,, the neatest , and the cleanest,,, never a prize for the fastest,,, this makes work sloppy ,,, the clean up guy ,, sometimes considered the lowest man get his share of recognition ,,,


you guys, Scott,  Charles, and Bill   were kool and gave me alot of info so I gave you a little back,,, and do this sometimes in front of the customes,, the customers feel good,,, the employees feel good,,, and so do I ,,, and hey we only go around once,, and yes smart guy that is going to answer me back,,, but once you are gone your gone keep going ,,, I never take anybody back........................ Never   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so they don't walk over me ,,,,






-- Edited by Big George on Thursday 24th of June 2010 08:18:39 PM

Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:

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Confident Roof Cleaning Houston TX wrote:

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Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:

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Clear Shine wrote:

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Hey Tim! Its good to see ya on here too! You have been a big help over the years....

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I certified Tim on his second post, any objections
Welcome home Tim

 

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I object!!!

Tim Should be made a Master Roof Cleaning Instructor.

 

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I agree, and as soon as he starts posting here again, he will be

I gotta save my only remaining Carrot Scott!

 

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Ha! It's hard to find the time. I will check in when I can. There are a lot of great ideas and new equipment being talked about here. Keep pushing to find the most efficient/reliable pump set up for your style of cleaning. We use electric application pumps and high gpm (15) rinse pumps to softwash in Tallahassee.

 

swee****erfish wrote:

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Here's a question I haven't seen addressed yet... can I wash a house using an air diaphragm pump?

You could, but It certainly wouldn't be efficient. I wash huge two story houses in as little as 20 minutes, my guess is it would take you 4 times longer.

 

Pump Question: I have 3/8 air pump used for transfer. Theres alot of air coming out in the discharge. There's no liquid coming out the baffle. Very simple set up. Any idea whats the problem?