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Post Info TOPIC: Surfactant
Roof Cleaning Pro Greensboro NC (336)362 7659


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Surfactant
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In colder climates where it gets down below freezing at night, it is good to have more than one type of surfactant.

If the temperature outside is below 40 degrees, I reschedule another time.  The chemicals do not work well enough for it to be worth it.  You end up reapplying so many times and wasting a lot of chemical.

I noticed Dawn will freeze, but Ajax DOES NOT!  Of course, if you remember to put a heater in your van or garage, or just bring your dawn in the house, you won't have to worry about it freezing.

This is because Ajax has alcohol in it, to keep it from freezing.

Dawn provides more cling and sticks better though.  I like to use dawn for steep roofs, if it is not frozen from the night before of course.

For really steep roofs Tergitol NP-9 is the best. 

See the commercial roof cleaning thread.  Apple cleaned a huge steep church with NP-9

Also, DO NOT buy anti-bacterial dish soap!  Some of them contain ammonium chloride or ammonium sulfate, which is a bad combination when mixed with bleach.

It will cause a chemical reaction, releasing chlorine gas!  You will also get a foaming volcano mess.

http://www.trinitymfg.com/pdfs/Bleach/Bleach_Incompatibility_Chart.pdf

Use regular or original dish soap or NP-9



-- Edited by Mike Sullivan at 12:00, 2009-02-18

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I made the mistake once of using the anti bacterial soap. OMG I thought I was gonna die doing a Pool Deck and Enclosure. What an awful smell not to metion the gag factor. I had it left over from Cleaning a Roof and decided to ds it on the Pool Cage. I couldn't wait for my tank to be emptied of that stuff. I kept adding water and then new mix and it seemed to take forever to go away. Never again will I make that mistake! no

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Roof Cleaning Pro Greensboro NC (336)362 7659


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I think we've all been there. I got in a hurry once and poured bleach in a pump sprayer w/o rinsing it out which had a little bit of acid in it! YIKES!! Can you say volcano! LOL!

Fortunately I didn't screw the lid down like the guy on Chris's roof cleaner explosion link! This guy did the unthinkable! LOL!

He mixed bleach in his pump sprayer that had muratic acid in it previously, screwed the lid down, and climbed up the roof. While the chemical reaction was happening it kept building up pressure........and BOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It blew a hole in the roof, and they had to air lift the poor guy in a chopper to the hospital with acid burns all over himself.

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The smell of beach and acid is something I can live without,.....it just smells like problems!!

Jeff

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Chlorine gas is brutal! Burns your lungs, makes your eyes water. I think sickos in wars use it for biological chemical warfare, the sh!t is rough.

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Hi, Newbie here.   My name is Dan, I'm an old alum siding salesmen just getting into roof cleaning and enjoy reading this forum. You guys have answered a lot of my questions before I have a chance to think of the question.  For that I am thankful. But, I would like to know , how much NP-9 do you use per 100 gal. on a 10-12 roof? Thank Dan

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1/2 gallon would be enough. No more than 1 gallon.

The stuff is so thick, it's like molasses and will slow your pump down.

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Great information for the newcomer! Terrific addition to this section on chemical and additives and ALSO what combination's to keep clear of.



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My favorite is Apple Blossom Dawn. It gives the "sticky" factor better than anything I have tried.

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FEW Surfactants are TRULY Chlorine stable.
Result ?
They fight the chlorine and both are weakened.
Here is a TRULY Bleach and Chlorine stable surfact ant

DeTerge CS-45LF  http://www.deforest.net/lowfoamdeterge.html

Chemical name: alkoxylated carboxylate carboxylate,
n a carboxylic acid salt, ester, or ion.  

Use levels: 0.5-5.0%

Applications: sanitizing products containing chlorine, laundry detergents, food plant cleaners, alkaline cleaners and automatic dishwashing detergents

Comments: A unique, low-foaming, chlorine stable, primary surfactant for use in alkaline systems only. Stable in 15% active caustic and alkaline electrolytes. Has wetting, emulsification and detergency properties. Stable on dry caustic, hard water stable, biodegradable and cost effective.

Someone order a sample, and lets see how it works ?
 


-- Edited by Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa 813-655-8777 at 17:51, 2009-03-02

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Good call Chris. I have noticed that once I add the Dawn or surfactant, that batch must be used within about 3 days or it loses strength significantly. I've never had a problem as long as I use it quick.

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precisionpower wrote:

Good call Chris. I have noticed that once I add the Dawn or surfactant, that batch must be used within about 3 days or it loses strength significantly. I've never had a problem as long as I use it quick.




YES, it does weaken it using Dawn.
This is why we MUST find a TRULY stable surfactant DESIGNED for our needs ?
NP 9 surfactant weakens it too, but does provide incredible cling if used that day.
Someone needs to call the company, and request a free sample ?
Then lets try it ?


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deflig


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I ordered the free sample of DeTerge CS 45LF and it seemed to work fine. Does anyone know if they are selling it in larger quantities yet?

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Where did you get the sample? How much did they send you?

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Where do you buy NP9? I use dawn but I just bid on a very steep business roof. thanks

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Univar sells np9

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Does Univar have DeTerge CS 45LF?

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http://www.chemistrystore.com/search.cgi?keywords=np-9

Not sure how much Univar charges but $20 for a gallon should last a while.


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Cardinal Roof Cleaning Jackson TN wrote:

Does Univar have DeTerge CS 45LF?



ONLY deforest enterprises in boca raton fl sells Deterge CS 45LF
It is a special product, made by them!

 



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Roof Cleaning Evansville Indiana 270 860 7894


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Tucker, any update on the "miracle surfactant" you mentioned a few months ago? Any luck with the viscosity of it yet?

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