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Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

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Date: Jul 29, 2011
New pump problems
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New Flojet pentaflex 7 pumps strong for a few seconds then drops pressure and doesn't pump at all but can be heard cycling.  Shut off and wait a minute and sometimes it pumps up (accumilator) strong again and shuts off as its suppose to.  Shoots good for a minute then drops off again.  Seems almost like air (microbubbles) getting in and cycling is due to loss of suction (SH and Dawn btw).  Open up flow (take off tip) and purge air seems to help sometimes. Other times pump stopped and flippin switch off, then on and nothing.  Wait a while, turn back on and working again-I suspect a thermal shutoff switch?  Using right tips 40's.  This is a 5/8" poly kit from Pressure tek

Any thoughts appreciated



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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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did you check for air leaks in you pick up line from the tank.

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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Yes Mike, the detergent seems to be causing the micro bubbles as I can see them in the pickup tube.  Used the setup for the first time wed, went back over to AOD pump about halfway thru the day and haven't had time to screw with 12v yet.

I suspect that with no tip full flow rate purged air but maybe accumilator/40 tip restricting flow rate allows enough air to build up in pump?  Its setup according to PT.

Sundays project woohoono



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Maverick Contracting

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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Hi Adam,

What did Bob say about it?

If using one of the straight Jabsco 3/4 barb by snap-in, mine came in a pack without O-rings on them and I had to remove them from the 90 degree pieces.

Could that be it?  Is that strainer staying at the bottom of the tank, and are you sure the snap-ins aren't cracked?

I'm probably stating the obvious and you've checked all this already.



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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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  I'm sure Bob well fix you up.  If you think it's the bubbles, try just water and see if that fixes it.



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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Why didn't I think of that ... Tom's got it.  A 5 gal bucket of water will rule out the detergent/bubble question.

If water solves it, talk to me about creating a dropstick to keep the strainer at the bottom.



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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Maverick Contracting wrote:

New Flojet pentaflex 7 pumps strong for a few seconds then drops pressure and doesn't pump at all but can be heard cycling.  Shut off and wait a minute and sometimes it pumps up (accumilator) strong again and shuts off as its suppose to.  Shoots good for a minute then drops off again.  Seems almost like air (microbubbles) getting in and cycling is due to loss of suction (SH and Dawn btw).  Open up flow (take off tip) and purge air seems to help sometimes. Other times pump stopped and flippin switch off, then on and nothing.  Wait a while, turn back on and working again-I suspect a thermal shutoff switch?  Using right tips 40's.  This is a 5/8" poly kit from Pressure tek

Any thoughts appreciated


 WTF are you doing with an accumiliator with the Flo Jet pentaflex anyway ?  The Flo Jet Pentaflex has a built in pump bypass, unlike the Delavan Fat Boy. I don't use an accumilator with the Flo Jet Pentaflex we have on our back up truck.



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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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BTW:  If you do pull that snap-in to check the O-ring, be very carful with those blue clips.  The part inside the slide, that you can't see, is very thin and will crack in an instant, so ease it down out of the locked position.

Mine cracked.  ITT/Flowjet sent another.  It's an easy swap.



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Al McGlinn

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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:

 


 WTF are you doing with an accumiliator with the Flo Jet pentaflex anyway ?  The Flo Jet Pentaflex has a built in pump bypass, unlike the Delavan Fat Boy. I don't use an accumilator with the Flo Jet Pentaflex we have on our back up truck.


 Hey Chris, got the accumilator as it was strongly suggested by Bob.  When I ordered the pentaflex upgrade to the 5/8" kit I asked is there anything else I should add to the kit.  When he mentioned the acc. I questioned if I needed it w/the internal bypass and he stated I should, it'll help with backing off with a ball valve even though currently I'm using the bandit trigger spray.  Didn't have time to eff 'round troubleshootin on the job so went back to the air setup to finish the job.

You think I'll get better performance removing the accumilator?

------------------------------

@ Tom, haven't goten back to Bob yet, I'm sure he'll help out.

@Al, I have it setup w/the straight fittings and a PVC pipe, 90deg-12" w/lots of holes stick strainer flowed nicely while testing.  Its clamped to the container to prevent rise, thinkin of epoxying weight to it as well.  Fully encapsulated of course, the epoxy is supposed to be fully chem resistant.



-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Friday 29th of July 2011 12:38:12 PM

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which do you guys prefer flo jet or Delavan

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A 'well tip', either home made or store bought, at the bottom of your draw tube shouild do the trick guys.  Once the pump creates suction, the tube will sink again if it's lifted any at all.

I have both Fatboys as well as a Pentaflx.  I'm partial to the Pentaflex due to the internal bypass.  However; my Fatboy will have an accumulator within days and then the real comparison can be done.  They're both about the same performance wise IMO.   At least for now.  One is about to be rigged completely different, as a stand alone spare/specialty system. 



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Roof Cleaning Cleveland (216) 323-0552 wrote:

  I'm sure Bob well fix you up.  If you think it's the bubbles, try just water and see if that fixes it.


I agree. Try just water. I doubt it is caused by the saop.

It always ends up to be an air leak-even though you don't see it.

Been there, done that, so many times!

Take any clamps off, cut back any tubing a few inches, put it back on, heat up the connections some and tighten the clamps.

I bet that stops it!



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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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I always let my hose run back into my Mix tank before every job to eliminate any air bubbles in the line and prevent loss of pressure......The only time I lose pressure is when I start running out of mix and air gets in the line. I find if i don't do this It feels like I don't have as much pressure in the line......then when I do.....

If you don't let the pump prime fully on the ground then you are prolly gonna have a hard time getting it to prime up the slant of a roof.......

just my .02 cents

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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Roof Cleaning New Braunfels TX 830-660-9849 wrote:

I always let my hose run back into my Mix tank before every job to eliminate any air bubbles in the line and prevent loss of pressure......The only time I lose pressure is when I start running out of mix and air gets in the line. I find if i don't do this It feels like I don't have as much pressure in the line......then when I do.....

If you don't let the pump prime fully on the ground then you are prolly gonna have a hard time getting it to prime up the slant of a roof.......

just my .02 cents


+1



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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Roof Cleaning New Braunfels TX 830-660-9849 wrote:

I always let my hose run back into my Mix tank before every job to eliminate any air bubbles in the line and prevent loss of pressure......The only time I lose pressure is when I start running out of mix and air gets in the line. I find if i don't do this It feels like I don't have as much pressure in the line......then when I do.....

If you don't let the pump prime fully on the ground then you are prolly gonna have a hard time getting it to prime up the slant of a roof.......

just my .02 cents


 I agree with you on this too.



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I've only had 1 prob with my 5850 and it was fixed with a micro relay.....grabbed 2 spares since there is only one place in tx that carrys the same model



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Thanks Chuck & Joe....It's just from learning while on the job!! Glad I know now, Saves me alot of up and down the ladder work...lol

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Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Will, Joe, Chuck...

I agree on the air issue.

Just got back from the shop after trouble shootin/bench testing.

I also primed back into tank to purge the air, was workin fine if I shot against the wall so as not to airate the "mix" (in this test case just water). when shootin striaght down near pickup had the same problem.  Airating the H2O caused problem.

Bench test:

(1) ran pump straight out w/o 200ft of hose (short connection from pump/acc. to bandit trigger)

(2) 5/8" hose but hose barbs inner dia. is 1/2"

(3) with this and open p.u. tube (no strainer) bench tested pump @ 5gpm

(4) with this and homemade pvc filter still 5gpm which means no restriction from filter

as per #(1) strong flow w/o probs, adding #40 tips some flow/cycling probs. )(air buildup in sys)

I DID notice that if fluid level got within 2-4 inches or so of filter it started to have issues.  I suspect the strong pull (suction) of this pump caused cavitation that caused a "whirlpool" pulling in air and stalling pump.  Guess I should have enough mix to stop before that point.

 

 Maybe thats my problem or maybe I over analyze shi'ite!

 



-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Saturday 30th of July 2011 11:48:49 AM

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Date: Jul 29, 2011
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Do you have crimped fittings on your hose with 3/4 conn....if so loose the barbs and just go with a 3/4 ball valve and a tip. I've been using this set-up no prob. I've been wanting to try an accum tank but have not gotten around to buying one yet.

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Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

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Date: Jul 30, 2011
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On a side note regarding air diaphraghm pumps vs 12v pumps.

Can you use any size orficed nozzles with air diag. pumps?

I.E.: instead of #40 zero tip nozzle, using #12 zero tip to get distance while controlling amount of love which is what I used with the AOD pump I'm assuming the air pump won't be damaged w/smaller tips as where 12v on demand pumps need the bigger flow rate?



-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Saturday 30th of July 2011 04:52:17 PM

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