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Post Info TOPIC: Cleaning Asphalt Shingles with low PSI water only has more benefits than Chemicals


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Date: Jan 27, 2015
RE: Cleaning Asphalt Shingles with low PSI water only has more benefits than Chemicals
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Free speech is one thing but we are all tired of listening to you so take you speech somewhere else. This isn't a debate. This is you against every other person on this forum. We have all found the better way to tackle roofs. We don't want or need to hear your rants about the wrong way to clean a roof.

Why would ANYBODY listen to you or believe you when you cant even understand that "ARM" is nothing. What we have told you repeatedly is ARMA... Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Association.

I can only hope all of your potential customers somehow see this thread and read it before they have you on their roof and driving through their yard with your van. Then they will call me instead ;)

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roofcleanerspalmbeachcom wrote:

So if bleach is 5-8%

ARM recommends 'Solutions range fron one cup of TSP, one gallon bleach, and five gallons water, to one cup TSP and 2.5 gallons 'each' off bleach and water.

Arm does not mention chlorine of SH which are a lot stronger

So the strongest mix is bleach cut 50% with water, and one cup TSP. This would be 2.5% - 4% strength. And it has to be rinsed off the roof 15- 20 minutes later 'finally rinse the solution (bleach ranging from 1:5 to max 50/50 water) from the roof by gently spraying the roof (entire) surface with water.

Now we know your not using bleach, perhaps even stronger cholrine but probably with SH which you can mix concentrations far higher than 2.5-4%, as well as adding other chemicals/soaps that are not approved.

You just can't catch on, can you? First off, it's not ARM, it's ARMA.

Secondly, ARMA did not say we couldn't add dish liquid, or any other soap, to make the mix a bit thicker.

Third, you keep quoting them, but you don't follow their directions at all - you use nothing!

Chlorox makes 8.5% and, even though you obviously don't know it, that's simply 8.5% S H = SH.I told you in the beginning to go look at your wife's bottle of bleach, but you refuse to learn anything about the subject. If you go look, you will see it says the only active ingredient is S H - get it? SH, the same as pool chlorine 100%

THIS IS FROM THE EPA - -

Product: CONCENTRATED CLOROX GERMICIDAL
BLEACH1
EPA Reg#:
5813
-
100
Registrant:
THE CLOROX COMPANY
Approval Date:
01/12/2011
Active Ingredient:
S H
8.25%

Now, the chlorine - S H [ I'll go slow, so you can keep up ] we buy, [ at least in my area]  [unlike you, I don't want to just "say things, I don't know about the whole country?"]  is 10.5% when it is manufactured, according to the supplier I buy from. After sitting in a 2000 gallon container, at the pool store for a week or more, maybe a month, you would be lucky if it was 8.5%

Anyway, to your benefit, say it's still 10%. To clean shingled roofs, most of us use 25% SH and the rest water, and we "MAY" add 44 ounces of dish liquid to a 100 gallon tank. Do you do any math? I see you missed all the school classes on spelling confuse.gif So, the math = 10% Chlorine - using a 25% mix = 2.5% { RIGHT??? } Are you able to follow this? It's not calculus!

ARMA [ not arm ] says we can use 50% bleach and at 8.5% that's 4.2.5

So, I guess, according to you and the ARMA, we need to use a stronger mix! biggrin.gif

What they DO NOT SAY, is to clean the shingles like you do. With no bleach! They know perfectly well, that you are not killing the algae / bacteria and so, you are giving your customers almost nothing for their money. You are just blowing the algae / bacteria all around and onto everything adjacent to the roof! You are spoiling the environment! no.gif



This is the problem chemical tank mixes that are potent / strong and designed by chemical roof cleaners to stay on the roof and NOT be rinsed off the roof in 15 mins otherwise there will be dead vegetation, and damaged surfaces downstairs

Hmmmm, you "assume an awful lot, for a guy who knows very little on the subject! Who says we don't rinse the roofs off? Just you I guess? Where did you hear that we never rinse? You just keep showing, over and over, that you know nothing on the subject, you don't kill the roof infestations, you just blow them around and you "assume" just about everything you "think" you know! yawn.gifObviously, if we were killing vegetation, like you "assume" we would not stay in business long! Are there uninformed people out there, softwashing roofs improperly and killing plants? I have no doubt! That is how guys like you get one of the few pictures that you steal online, of dead plants to post! Clearly, you "assume" all other pressure washing businesses, EXCEPT YOU OF COURSE, are cleaning roofs wrong, because they all use bleach through their injectors, so as to give their customers something for their money = DEAD ALGAE / BACTERIA! You stand alone - according to you - and leave the infestations of algae / bacteria alive and well and just fool the homeowner into thinking you got rid of it. All you actually do is make it not appear to still be there. You have certainly done yourself a lot of "internet" damage, by starting this debate, which you have lost a dozen times over, in anyone's eyes. In the meantime, you have given us Non-Pressure Cleaning Contractors a good opportunity, to teach the public the difference between your pressure washing, which causes damage to the shingles and just blows the living organisms on the roof all over everything as it simply continues to grow on the roof, with millions of living spores, that you refuse to kill, as the roofing manufacturers specify.

I have seen other "Guests" show up, showing more respect for the privilege of posting here and present much more interesting debates than your "water only" stand. VERY WEAK to say the least!



How many of you chemical roof cleaners are using stronger mixes of 4% and not rinsing the roof after application in 15 mins....if you are your voiding the ARM guidelines and voiding the warranty. Soft wash is a neat way to miss represent strong chemicals applied and not rinsed off no

Hmmmm, you are hard to follow, with all your misspelling and random thoughts! No, Softwash is what we do, my pump puts out 60 psi and that's before it runs through 225' of 1/2" ID hose and a gun and a tip!

You [ according to you ] are using at least many hundreds of pounds of pressure! Heck, you can rub shingle granules off, by lightly brushing your hand over them! 500 pounds of pressure will blow a good % of them off, along with the still living algae / bacteria all over everything in the area and still leave a good solid seeding on the roof, growing strong, because you did nothing to disinfect the roof-nothing at all!

Again my low pressure water method is better...looks like I have my IP blocked in the last week ...now my user banned....so much for the offer to join Chris on the first page...I guess free speech is under censorship here. So much for industry debate in finding better ways to tackle roofs. I wish you all the best and good paying jobs

Chris Tucker is a very nice, easy going guy, who puts up with "Guests" slandering our method much longer than you will find on other websites! On most, before now, you would have disappeared, along with your jabber. Your pressure washing method is not better, it's useless - you don't kill the algae / bacteria! If you were a pest control guy, you would make it so that the homeowner could not see the ants, termites and other pests for a while - get your $$$ and let the colonies thrive and come back! Maybe you don't follow the manufacturers guidelines and kill the growth, because that way you can come back next year and take their money again! Our work usually lasts 4 years! Our customers get what they pay for - Algae / bacteria eradication!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So if bleach is 5-8%

ARM recommends 'Solutions range fron one cup of TSP, one gallon bleach, and five gallons water, to one cup TSP and 2.5 gallons 'each' off bleach and water.

Arm does not mention chlorine of SH which are a lot stronger

So the strongest mix is bleach cut 50% with water, and one cup TSP. This would be 2.5% - 4% strength. And it has to be rinsed off the roof 15- 20 minutes later 'finally rinse the solution (bleach ranging from 1:5 to max 50/50 water) from the roof by gently spraying the roof (entire) surface with water.

Now we know your not using bleach, perhaps even stronger cholrine but probably with SH which you can mix concentrations far higher than 2.5-4%, as well as adding other chemicals/soaps that are not approved



This is the problem chemical tank mixes that are potent / strong and designed by chemical roof cleaners to stay on the roof and NOT be rinsed off the roof in 15 mins otherwise there will be dead vegetation, and damaged surfaces downstairs



How many of you chemical roof cleaners are using stronger mixes of 4% and not rinsing the roof after application in 15 mins....if you are your voiding the ARM guidelines and voiding the warranty. Soft wash is a neat way to miss represent strong chemicals applied and not rinsed off no

Again my low pressure water method is better...looks like I have my IP blocked in the last week ...now my user banned....so much for the offer to join Chris on the first page...I guess free speech is under censorship here. So much for industry debate in finding better ways to tackle roofs. I wish you all the best and good paying jobs

Product: CONCENTRATED CLOROX GERMICIDAL
BLEACH1
EPA Reg#:
5813
-
100
Registrant:
THE CLOROX COMPANY
Approval Date:
01/12/2011
Active Ingredient:
S H
8.25%



-- Edited by roofcleanerspalmbeachcom on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 07:53:02 PM


 



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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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I found some of his work that is the "better way." These videos are the result of 24 years experience? WOW

WTF kind of cedar roof cleaning is this?... www.youtube.com/watch

I'll bet your going to say this is "low pressure" cleaning too... www.youtube.com/watch

You can't even clean a patio right... www.youtube.com/watch
By the way what is your chemical additive? Looks like dawn in a bucket to me. Good to wash dishes with but is useless on a patio covered in algae.
Yes your machine IS powerful, but you don't know how to use it effectively. The mold, mildew, and algae are still stuck to the travertine pavers. I can see the big green clumps still on the floor after you pass over it with your wand (still waiting for you to show us a pressure gauge before the trigger handle to verify your psi claims). I can clean FASTER than you using an 8gpm machine and clean BETTER than you with bleach.

And the best part of the entire video... @ 2:05 you can see the van parked on the grass. You actually drove your van all over the lawn. Much better than a truck/trailer parked out front in the street.

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roofcleanerspalmbeachcom wrote:

So if bleach is 5-8%

ARM recommends 'Solutions range fron one cup of TSP, one gallon bleach, and five gallons water, to one cup TSP and 2.5 gallons 'each' off bleach and water.

Arm does not mention chlorine of SH which are a lot stronger

So the strongest mix is bleach cut 50% with water, and one cup TSP. This would be 2.5% - 4% strength. (Nope...if you read what I said where most of us use 12.5 % bleach (also called S H), a 50/50 mix would render a mix around 6.25 % bleach, and about 93.75% water, minus a little bit of surfactant which in the measurement doesn't make a lot of difference.  No matter how you cut it, a 6.25 % mix is much stronger than you need to clean a roof.  Other cleaning jobs can go down to ~0.75 % SH and still do a good job cleaning if you know what you're doing.) And it has to be rinsed off the roof 15- 20 minutes later 'finally rinse the solution (bleach ranging from 1:5 to max 50/50 water) from the roof by gently spraying the roof (entire) surface with water.

Now we know your not using bleach, perhaps even stronger cholrine but probably with SH which you can mix concentrations far higher than 2.5-4%, as well as adding other chemicals/soaps that are not approved

Huh?  not using bleach...stronger chlorine but probably with SH?  Are you assuming these are all different products?


This is the problem chemical tank mixes that are potent / strong and designed by chemical roof cleaners to stay on the roof and NOT be rinsed off the roof in 15 mins otherwise there will be dead vegetation, and damaged surfaces downstairs



How many of you chemical roof cleaners are using stronger mixes of 4% and not rinsing the roof after application in 15 mins....if you are your voiding the ARM guidelines and voiding the warranty. Soft wash is a neat way to miss represent strong chemicals applied and not rinsed off no  

Again, show us where the ARM (LOL...) says this voids the warranty?  I think you mean ARMA.  You'd think someone working in the roof cleaning for 24 years would know this term well. 

Again my low pressure water method is better...looks like I have my IP blocked in the last week ...now my user banned....so much for the offer to join Chris on the first page...I guess free speech is under censorship here. So much for industry debate in finding better ways to tackle roofs. I wish you all the best and good paying jobs

Chris probably offered to let you join so you could learn, but it appears that is not happening very fast.  It almost looks like you're putting up bogus info trying to get us to tell you exactly what we do on every single different type of surface.  Sad thing is many of these people would have been willing to take you under their wing for several jobs and help you get around the learning curve you so obviously are aching for.


 



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Stay Clean wrote:

I found some of his work that is the "better way." These videos are the result of 24 years experience? WOW

WTF kind of cedar roof cleaning is this?... www.youtube.com/watch

I'll bet your going to say this is "low pressure" cleaning too... www.youtube.com/watch

You can't even clean a patio right... www.youtube.com/watch
By the way what is your chemical additive? Looks like dawn in a bucket to me. Good to wash dishes with but is useless on a patio covered in algae.
Yes your machine IS powerful, but you don't know how to use it effectively. The mold, mildew, and algae are still stuck to the travertine pavers. I can see the big green clumps still on the floor after you pass over it with your wand (still waiting for you to show us a pressure gauge before the trigger handle to verify your psi claims). I can clean FASTER than you using an 8gpm machine and clean BETTER than you with bleach.

And the best part of the entire video... @ 2:05 you can see the van parked on the grass. You actually drove your van all over the lawn. Much better than a truck/trailer parked out front in the street.


Wow, for someone using "low pressure", that wand sure is jumping around and bending an awful lot about 3:25 into the video!  Look at that pitch witch on a pole in first video about 3:30 or so into the video.  Gravity usually pulls things down, but the "low" pressure it so HIGH that it is bending BOTH THE POLE AND THE PITCH WITCH UP INTO THE AIR. 

As we said before, LOW PRESSURE...NO WAY!  The pressure is so great he is PUSHING THE PITCH WITCH DOWN to keep it on the roof.  <shaking my head in disbelief>  My remote controlled helicopter doesn't take off that fast!



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I was laughing so hard, I pissed my pants!

Please go some where else with all your BS and drama



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Stay Clean wrote:

I found some of his work that is the "better way." These videos are the result of 24 years experience? WOW

WTF kind of cedar roof cleaning is this?... www.youtube.com/watch - He picked a section that was hardly even discolored> I wasn't sure at first, what was clean and what was durty. Man! What a lot of wasted effort!

I'll bet your going to say this is "low pressure" cleaning too... www.youtube.com/watch Regular old power washing! Even with his BIG power washing machine, you can hear it's running at high rpm to get all the pressure he can!

You can't even clean a patio right... www.youtube.com/watch After cleaning this and using "DREADED CHEMICALS" the decking is NOT clean at all!  I could walk in there are make his finished job look like day and night! Terrible work!
By the way what is your chemical additive? Looks like dawn in a bucket to me. Good to wash dishes with but is useless on a patio covered in algae.
Yes your machine IS powerful, but you don't know how to use it effectively. The mold, mildew, and algae are still stuck to the travertine pavers. I can see the big green clumps still on the floor after you pass over it with your wand (still waiting for you to show us a pressure gauge before the trigger handle to verify your psi claims). I can clean FASTER than you using an 8gpm machine and clean BETTER than you with bleach.

And the best part of the entire video... @ 2:05 you can see the van parked on the grass. You actually drove your van all over the lawn. Much better than a truck/trailer parked out front in the street. HEE HEE! I wouldn't dream of driving on my customers lawns! Heck, people don't even want us to pull off the paved road 6"


 



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Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.

941-698-1959
www.bergmanroofcleaning.com

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Is this thread still going? Aren't your fingers getting tired...LOL?

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 Advantage Roof Cleaning Company

Certified Roof Cleaning Specialist

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stupid ass trouble maker

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Every surface has different psi...my machine can go low low psi, or I can turn it up.

So can any of you comment about rinsing down the roof with water 15 mins after to chem it?...do you all do this?

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roofcleanerspalmbeachcom wrote:

Every surface has different psi...my machine can go low low psi, or I can turn it up.

So can any of you comment about rinsing down the roof with water 15 mins after to chem it?...do you all do this?


Still looking for a free education?   



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roofcleanerspalmbeachcom wrote:

Every surface has different psi...my machine can go low low psi, or I can turn it up.

So can any of you comment about rinsing down the roof with water 15 mins after to chem it?...do you all do this?


 biggrin.gif I just noticed, under your name on the left, it says "Stupid ass trouble maker" biggrin.gif

Now your long winded rant is down to 1 simple question, you need us to answer for you, how do we rinse. I use a garden hose. As to weather we all do this, that's each individual's business. You don't need an answer, because you are not trying to start a roof cleaning business. If you were, RCIA would be the place with all the correct info and we'd be sure to help! wink.gif



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Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.

941-698-1959
www.bergmanroofcleaning.com

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Wow this guy is really just unrealistic. Its the old saying if you keep saying the same thing over and over then eventually you will believe it even if it is not true. If a lite rain can knock off granules then his high volume high pressure will most likely knock off the granules as well.

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Diamond Roof Cleaning New Jersey (1-800-Roof-Clean) wrote:

Wow this guy is really just unrealistic. Its the old saying if you keep saying the same thing over and over then eventually you will believe it even if it is not true. If a lite rain can knock off granules then his high volume high pressure will most likely knock off the granules as well.


 A Tidal Wave of water destroys stuff by IMPACT, not pressure. 



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While I didn't get to post it has been fun watching the Pro's attempt to educate a know nothing.


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roofcleanerspalmbeachcom wrote:

I found some of his work that is the "better way." These videos are the result of 24 years experience? WOW

You can't even clean a patio right... www.youtube.com/watch
By the way what is your chemical additive? Looks like dawn in a bucket to me. Good to wash dishes with but is useless on a patio covered in algae.
Yes your machine IS powerful, but you don't know how to use it effectively. The mold, mildew, and algae are still stuck to the travertine pavers. I can see the big green clumps still on the floor after you pass over it with your wand (still waiting for you to show us a pressure gauge before the trigger handle to verify your psi claims). I can clean FASTER than you using an 8gpm machine and clean BETTER than you with bleach.

And the best part of the entire video... @ 2:05 you can see the van parked on the grass. You actually drove your van all over the lawn. Much better than a truck/trailer parked out front in the street.


Regarding the patio video - I am posting this here instead of on his YouTube post because I don't want to take money out of your pocket and lower myself to that regard on your YouTube channel, but since you brought the discussion here, I'll post my replies here.

Patio video - Did you come back afterwards and replace the sand you blew out from between the pavers?  You hit the nail on the head - regarding the weeds you just "weed wacked" the tops off.  Remember all those Round Up commercials?  if you don't treat and kill the weeds at the root level, they will just keep growing back again and again.  What were you using to make sure the moss and stuff growing between the pavers was actually killed instead of having the 'tops' trimmed?  Plus if you'd have driven up on my nicely manicured lawn like that, I'd have thrown you out in a heartbeat.  All you needed to tote around was the pressure washer and an empty 55 gallon drum.  Why in the world would you pull your vehicle onto the customers lawn...just to save a few steps?

Back to the patio and weeds and paver sand -  I'm guessing the algae and moss will be growing back in around 6-8 months requiring another visit, versus killing the moss and algae.  Bleach/S H will kill these organisms.  I'm just guessing here but how would you treat this when you refill the paver sand?  Do you get 40-80 pounds of rock salt to mix in with the sand to prevent any future growth for a while? 

And this picture below is something used to teach in classrooms how not to do roof cleaning, to enforce what happens when you take shortcuts or use improper spraying techniques - probably one of those few new people that never took the time to learn properly (you probably have more knowledge than this person just from this single thread).  To be honest, I'd not be surprised if someone did this on purpose to get this effect for the picture itself for training purposes.  If you were standing here, I'm pretty sure you'd find this roof has no gutters.  If you feather spray the SH cleaning solution onto the roof properly you have minimal runoff, where this person probably had a great deal of runoff, and without gutters the solution or remaining salt came directly down onto the plants.  They obviously didn't take the proper steps to protect the customers plants and property.  Maybe they were going to rinse and saw a storm coming and took a shortcut and didn't do any rinsing and the storm passed over with no rain, or they didn't adequately rinse and dilute any SH (or just plain leftover salt) after the roof cleaning, or they were using too strong of a mix, or any combination of the above.  If this were Drivers Ed, this would have been a fatal car wreck, and like so many people driving down the road, 99.999% of them get from point A to point B safely by doing things properly, and this picture is the car wreck where things were definitely done improperly.  I'd still prefer this person to clean my roof over you though.  At least these plants will probably recover in a few months or the following year and I'll still have a clean roof versus roof damage from high pressure and a voided roof warranty from the high pressure as it goes against the ARMA (Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Association) guidelines.

I've asked before and you'd evaded the question - how much of a warranty do you give your customers on a roof cleaning?  6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years, 5 years?  Most of us are in the 4-5 year range, where I'm guessing you're on a yearly follow up maintenance plan, aren't you?

 Chemical Roof Cleaning review dangers

 



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A person who is good at "Photo Shop" type work, could easily make this picture.
I know that at least 1 of the owners of the business "Ugly Shingles" can do it!
If you look closely, the part that's supposed to be dead, is all angled in 1 direction-almost like it was put in the picture? Also, there should be some "browning" near the dead portion, but there's not, it's like lines were drawn and only that area was touched? Don't look right to me!
That's not to say that if a roof without gutters was cleaned by an inexperienced person, that the plants couldn't be killed-they certainly could be! But, that's no reason not to hire a professional.
An inexperienced lawn care person could ruin your whole lawn, by applying wrong chemicals to it. That's no reason not to hire an experienced lawn care professional.
From personal experience, I have done this work for over 20 years now and, to be honest, I have "browned" a few plants temporarily, yellowed and knocked some leaves off and flat out killed 6 plants, - that I had to replace - that's not much for over 20 years! The browned, yellowed and leaf loss plants all came back, after I spent some time trimming and water-water-watering!

In every trade, there's occasional mistakes, but professional have very few and jump to take care of fixing the problem!



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Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.

941-698-1959
www.bergmanroofcleaning.com

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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I personally have cleaned hundreds of roofs with chems and none of the surrounding landscaping looked like your photo when we were done. Or antime after.

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This guy is a rare bird for sure. He supposedly has 24 years in the industry and still doesn't know the term ARMA? I'm guessing he came here starting a discussion trying to get everybody to tell them all their tips and tricks they paid for either through cash for classes or through the school of hard knocks. If he had just simply asked if someone here would take a few jobs and let him shadow them and learn a few tricks and tips, he probably would have had half a dozen or more offers. That's how I got my start. Someone offered to let me shadow them on several jobs and let me see if this was something I really wanted to do and felt I was able to do. Not long after I was getting some training and going out to get some jobs. I will definitely be using some of what this guy said when some customers ask about pressure washing vs. soft washing. What a great wealth of information on why not to hire a pressure washer for roofs, or him directly. I can't believe he drove across the customers lawn versus carrying or carting his equipment where he needed it. Some yahoos drove across my moms lawn when they were cutting down trees and left tracks all the way around the house.

I've asked him probably 5 or 6 times what kind of warranty he gives his customers but I can't get an answer, which makes me think his warranty is the "tail light warranty" which for those that haven't heard that, the job is warrantied until his tail lights leave the drive way. I'd bet at best he gives a year.

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Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

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Posts: 122
Date: May 15, 2015
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I have been in the cleaning business for 37 years , have tried all different types of pumps , including the high volume myres pumps ,  I have seen first hand low pressure high volume cleanning removing the grainuals from shingle roofs , and also if you dont use SH , you will leave spores of live mold on the roof , the stains come back very fast , 6mo ,  the only way to properly clean a shingle roof  is the chemical roof cleanning system , with SH , I guess thats why the shingle mfgs themselves recomend the chemical roof cleanning , No shingle  (or tile)  mfg recomends pressure of any type on there product , due to the damage it causes , there are all kinds of people cleanning roofs wrong , anytime I loose a job to any inexperinced  cleaner doing it wrong , I make sure to advise the coustomer exactly what is going to happen , and I will still be there to clean it properly when they are ready, usualy they are out of bis , I have and continue to get many jobs , from people who have had people like you doing there roofs ,



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Posts: 1340
Date: May 25, 2015
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Man,..sorry I missed this clown and this thread!

Jeff

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Raystown Roof Cleaning
Central, Pa

(814) 644-1396 or 1-800-236-0322

Roof Cleaning Central Pennsylvania

Huntingdon, State College, Lewistown, Altoona







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